I've just spent my break looking and reading your emails - you were definitely on the right trail. I can't begin to thank you enough for your diligence and research on James M Shay.
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This past year has really taught me a lot about researching genealogy. Using family oral history as well as logic and geography really made fleshing out the details of James Monroe Shay's life fun.
Several times I got thrown down the wrong path trying to connect James with the right family. There were 3 other James Shays born between 1835-1838 that I suspected could be him. The James Shay from Ohio first made sense when I saw that the 1870 & 1880 census for his daughters listed their father as born in Ohio. I also looked at the James Shay from Western PA. Also the James Shay from Newburgh, NY also could fit.
But there were always questions that lingered for me about Jane Shay's line. My great grandfather claimed to have native american in his background, he said he had ancestors that went out west to California and he said that he had 3 family members who fought in the Civil War. One of these men was shot in the face. Also I was puzzeled why Jane Shay left Scott Co., MO after 1880 to arrive in Potter Co., PA by 1885. I always thought that there must have been a connection.
You helped me put everything together when you discovered Nancy Shay's marriage record to Thomas Owens and you ordered James Shay's pension records. The pension records gave us most of our info about James. When I looked into all the Shays near Potter County in the 1800's and in Allegany & Livingston County...Silas Shay stood out and was hard to connect. After you received Silas Shay's pension records...it seemed very probable that Silas and James were brothers linking them as sons of Peter Shay Jr. I am happy that JK has been able to confirm that James Monroe Shay was a son of Peter.
I have fleshed out most of the oral history my great grandfather George Heath gave. I have a strong feeling that Stavina, mother of James is probably the Native American since she came from out West in the 1820's. I hope J can confirm this or has something about this subject. We are almost there.
Friday, July 10, 2009
July 8, 2008 - Trappers in MO
I think I will try to go thru my emails - and see if I can locate the information we came across about the company who went to CA and hired men.
This may have been around the same time frame. I am so excited. I have to unpack my files tonight and put them back in order. I could hardly sleep last night --
This may have been around the same time frame. I am so excited. I have to unpack my files tonight and put them back in order. I could hardly sleep last night --
July 8, 2008 - 18 Months to Crack the Puzzle - James Monroe Shay Ancestors Confirmed!
She found me on Ancestry with my listing of James Monroe Shay as the son of Peter Shay and sent me an email. I was so happy for her to confirm that Peter Shay did in fact have a son by the name of James Monroe Shay.
I kept reading this email over and I think that if Peter Shay went out West on a scouting expedition then he would have had to of done it in the 1820's. During the 1820's...many trappers and settlers from the United States and Canada began to arrive on the West coast.
(Side note: My Uncle says that George Heath use to say that he had ancestors that went out to California). Since I know that nobody on the Heath side ever went out West, I wonder if George was referencing Peter Shay who would have been his great grandfather.
Also since Nathaniel Shay was born in January 1829 in New York, Peter Shay would have to of met his wife out West and married her by 1828. There could not have been too many women out West at that point. Many of the scouting expeditions were made up mainly of men. Also many Indian Tribes were making treaties with Americans or relocating. Given the name and vague information on Peter's wife. I think she is a very good candidate for being out Native American Woman that we are descended from.
I sent JK an email giving her all of James Monroe Shay's information...and setting the record straight that he fought for the Union and not the confederacy during the Civil War.
I asked her if she ever heard anything about a Native American connection. I am waiting on a reply from her. I am looking forward to any info she sends me and will forward it onto you.
I have Peter Shay Sr. Revolutionary War Pension Records. It sounds like Peter Sr, Peter Jr and James Shay all lead interesting lives. Its taken about 18 months to really crack the puzzle.
I kept reading this email over and I think that if Peter Shay went out West on a scouting expedition then he would have had to of done it in the 1820's. During the 1820's...many trappers and settlers from the United States and Canada began to arrive on the West coast.
(Side note: My Uncle says that George Heath use to say that he had ancestors that went out to California). Since I know that nobody on the Heath side ever went out West, I wonder if George was referencing Peter Shay who would have been his great grandfather.
Also since Nathaniel Shay was born in January 1829 in New York, Peter Shay would have to of met his wife out West and married her by 1828. There could not have been too many women out West at that point. Many of the scouting expeditions were made up mainly of men. Also many Indian Tribes were making treaties with Americans or relocating. Given the name and vague information on Peter's wife. I think she is a very good candidate for being out Native American Woman that we are descended from.
I sent JK an email giving her all of James Monroe Shay's information...and setting the record straight that he fought for the Union and not the confederacy during the Civil War.
I asked her if she ever heard anything about a Native American connection. I am waiting on a reply from her. I am looking forward to any info she sends me and will forward it onto you.
I have Peter Shay Sr. Revolutionary War Pension Records. It sounds like Peter Sr, Peter Jr and James Shay all lead interesting lives. Its taken about 18 months to really crack the puzzle.
July 5, 2008 -- Peter Shay Jr -- James Monroe Shay Connection
Thought you might find this very interesting.
James M. Shay is the missing link to Peter Shay's family.
I am exchanging emails back and forth with JK who is a descendant of James' brother Nathaniel.
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Thanks so much for your quick response.
I have been researching the Peter Shay family for a number of years, and your info on Ancestry.com was the first mention of James Monroe Shay that I have found anywhere.
I was delighted to find it, and what I found made me quite sure that we were working on the same family.
Let me first of all tell you where I fit into this family. I am descended from Peter Shay’s oldest son Nathaniel who was born 19 Jan 1829. He would be my great-great grandfather. My mother was a Shay and I grew up just a few miles from where the Shay family settled in Ossian, Allegany NY in about 1812. I have a lot of information on Peter Shay, Sr. and his family from his pension record, family sources and local NY sources.
There have been two books on the Peter Shay family privately printed, one in 1983 by Marian Fox Graves and one in 1990 by Marion E. Scott. I have copies of these, and I did some work in census records and Civil War records for the Scott book. Neither of these is perfect, and later research has proved some things in error, but it was helpful to have something to start with.
James Monroe has been the missing son in the Peter Shay, Jr. family. None of the family that remained in western NY apparently knew that he had gone to MO.
The Peter Shay, Jr. family has been difficult to trace for several reasons. Peter, Jr. met his wife somewhere out west when he was on a scouting expedition. They were married there and then returned to Ossian. The spelling of his wife’s name has never been certain and it takes many different forms: Statira, Stalina, Stavina, etc. The last child, Oscar E., was born about 1843 and Peter’s wife died soon after that. Family tradition says that two of Peter’s children were taken to Virginia to live with his oldest sister Anne who married a Shippey. Peter’s father had died in 1840 and then his mother died in 1848, both in Ossian. I have been unable to find any of them in the 1850 census, in any state, except for Nancy, George, and William living in Deerfield, Warren PA with Mary and Ira Boughton. There is an 1855 NY state census listing for Peter in Burns, Allegany Co. with Nancy A. 22, James M. 18, William 16. That is the only time I have found James Monroe in a census. The stories that have come down through the family about James Monroe were all I had to work with. One was that he was taken prisoner in the Civil War and died at Andersonville, and the other was that he had enlisted as a Confederate soldier. Probably the easiest way for me to get information to you is for me to mail my family group sheets for Peter, Sr. and Peter, Jr. I use the PAF program (Personal Ancestral File) for record keeping and notes, and hard copies would preserve my notes and formatting better than e-mail, I think. If you’ll send your address to me, I’ll get these in the mail right away. I think these will answer many of your questions on the family.
An interesting coincidence is that we are driving up to NY for a Shay family reunion on July 18 in Dansville, and I have been updating my Shay files to take to share. Now I have a great discovery to share! Thanks for all the good information on James Monroe . I look forward to working with you to solve some of the other brick walls in this family.
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You have made my day ..... my sister's birthday was the 4th and I just read this email to her ... she said that it was a great birthday present.
How did you ever find this JK?
Was it thru the name that you sent re: Indian connection?
I can't believe this -- Will you go to the Shay Reunion?-- the Seeley Reunion is the same day - but I would love to meet her - not sure though I could do both.
James M. Shay is the missing link to Peter Shay's family.
I am exchanging emails back and forth with JK who is a descendant of James' brother Nathaniel.
*******************************************
Thanks so much for your quick response.
I have been researching the Peter Shay family for a number of years, and your info on Ancestry.com was the first mention of James Monroe Shay that I have found anywhere.
I was delighted to find it, and what I found made me quite sure that we were working on the same family.
Let me first of all tell you where I fit into this family. I am descended from Peter Shay’s oldest son Nathaniel who was born 19 Jan 1829. He would be my great-great grandfather. My mother was a Shay and I grew up just a few miles from where the Shay family settled in Ossian, Allegany NY in about 1812. I have a lot of information on Peter Shay, Sr. and his family from his pension record, family sources and local NY sources.
There have been two books on the Peter Shay family privately printed, one in 1983 by Marian Fox Graves and one in 1990 by Marion E. Scott. I have copies of these, and I did some work in census records and Civil War records for the Scott book. Neither of these is perfect, and later research has proved some things in error, but it was helpful to have something to start with.
James Monroe has been the missing son in the Peter Shay, Jr. family. None of the family that remained in western NY apparently knew that he had gone to MO.
The Peter Shay, Jr. family has been difficult to trace for several reasons. Peter, Jr. met his wife somewhere out west when he was on a scouting expedition. They were married there and then returned to Ossian. The spelling of his wife’s name has never been certain and it takes many different forms: Statira, Stalina, Stavina, etc. The last child, Oscar E., was born about 1843 and Peter’s wife died soon after that. Family tradition says that two of Peter’s children were taken to Virginia to live with his oldest sister Anne who married a Shippey. Peter’s father had died in 1840 and then his mother died in 1848, both in Ossian. I have been unable to find any of them in the 1850 census, in any state, except for Nancy, George, and William living in Deerfield, Warren PA with Mary and Ira Boughton. There is an 1855 NY state census listing for Peter in Burns, Allegany Co. with Nancy A. 22, James M. 18, William 16. That is the only time I have found James Monroe in a census. The stories that have come down through the family about James Monroe were all I had to work with. One was that he was taken prisoner in the Civil War and died at Andersonville, and the other was that he had enlisted as a Confederate soldier. Probably the easiest way for me to get information to you is for me to mail my family group sheets for Peter, Sr. and Peter, Jr. I use the PAF program (Personal Ancestral File) for record keeping and notes, and hard copies would preserve my notes and formatting better than e-mail, I think. If you’ll send your address to me, I’ll get these in the mail right away. I think these will answer many of your questions on the family.
An interesting coincidence is that we are driving up to NY for a Shay family reunion on July 18 in Dansville, and I have been updating my Shay files to take to share. Now I have a great discovery to share! Thanks for all the good information on James Monroe . I look forward to working with you to solve some of the other brick walls in this family.
*******************************************************
You have made my day ..... my sister's birthday was the 4th and I just read this email to her ... she said that it was a great birthday present.
How did you ever find this JK?
Was it thru the name that you sent re: Indian connection?
I can't believe this -- Will you go to the Shay Reunion?-- the Seeley Reunion is the same day - but I would love to meet her - not sure though I could do both.
June 5, 2008 - Possibility of Native American Connection
I think there might be a possibility that our Native American connection to Jane Shay comes in through James Shay's side and not Margaret Mayberry's family. Charlotte Heath Sofa is now recalling her father mentioning that there was Indian blood coming from New York. If this is true I believe it would come in through James Shay's mother's side. Since I am convinced that Silas & James were brothers that also makes him a brother to Nathaniel, Nancy, Mary, George, William & Amanda as well.
Nathaniel Shay's marriage record says he is the son of Peter Shay & Satira Sutton. William Shay's death record lists him as the son of Peter Shay & Sophronia Sutton. Census records for their children lists Peter's birthplace as NJ and lists Sophronia/Satira's birthplace as NY. The 1880 record for Nathaniel lists his mother as being born in CT. Not sure if that means the Suttons originally came from CT or not. It could be that the Suttons had Native American blood in them and were assimulated into European American society.
We may want to keep out our eyes and ears open to any postings on genealogy sites that mention northern native american ancestry in any Shay or Sutton lines. I will try and see if any descendants of Nathaniel, Nancy, Mary, George, William or Amanda are posting any family trees or inquiries.
The following info comes from Wikipedia:
The Iroquois Nation covered much of Western and Upstate New York in the 17th and 18th centuries and consisted of five nations: the Mohawk, the Oneida, the Onondaga, the Cayuga, and the Seneca. A sixth tribe, the Tuscarora, joined after the original five nations were formed.
In the late eighteenth century, reformers starting with George Washington and John Knox, supported educating native children, in efforts to "civilize" or otherwise assimilate Native Americans to the larger society (as opposed to relegating them to reservations). The Civilization Fund Act of 1819 promoted this civilization policy by providing funding to societies (mostly religious) who worked on Native American improvement.
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It is good to hear from you. I have tried to trace out the Sophronia Sutton line but didn't have much luck.
Haven't had much time to do genealogy - my daughter bought a house and we are in the process of moving.
My notebooks, photos, and notes take up 4 plastic totes - she said I had to get a life that I had more stuff about dead people than I had for my class notes, clothes, etc.
I will pass this info on to my sister.
Don't forget the Seeley reunion is coming up next month - we would love to have your family including your Uncle Justin as guests. It is Watkins Glen State Park this year.
Nathaniel Shay's marriage record says he is the son of Peter Shay & Satira Sutton. William Shay's death record lists him as the son of Peter Shay & Sophronia Sutton. Census records for their children lists Peter's birthplace as NJ and lists Sophronia/Satira's birthplace as NY. The 1880 record for Nathaniel lists his mother as being born in CT. Not sure if that means the Suttons originally came from CT or not. It could be that the Suttons had Native American blood in them and were assimulated into European American society.
We may want to keep out our eyes and ears open to any postings on genealogy sites that mention northern native american ancestry in any Shay or Sutton lines. I will try and see if any descendants of Nathaniel, Nancy, Mary, George, William or Amanda are posting any family trees or inquiries.
The following info comes from Wikipedia:
The Iroquois Nation covered much of Western and Upstate New York in the 17th and 18th centuries and consisted of five nations: the Mohawk, the Oneida, the Onondaga, the Cayuga, and the Seneca. A sixth tribe, the Tuscarora, joined after the original five nations were formed.
In the late eighteenth century, reformers starting with George Washington and John Knox, supported educating native children, in efforts to "civilize" or otherwise assimilate Native Americans to the larger society (as opposed to relegating them to reservations). The Civilization Fund Act of 1819 promoted this civilization policy by providing funding to societies (mostly religious) who worked on Native American improvement.
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It is good to hear from you. I have tried to trace out the Sophronia Sutton line but didn't have much luck.
Haven't had much time to do genealogy - my daughter bought a house and we are in the process of moving.
My notebooks, photos, and notes take up 4 plastic totes - she said I had to get a life that I had more stuff about dead people than I had for my class notes, clothes, etc.
I will pass this info on to my sister.
Don't forget the Seeley reunion is coming up next month - we would love to have your family including your Uncle Justin as guests. It is Watkins Glen State Park this year.
May 7, 2008 - William Heath with young sons George & Will Jr.
Toni has boxes full of ancestor photos from both Heath & Amidon side. Here is another one she scanned in and sent me. She will send in more photos as she scans. She has more of William Heath's family.
May 8, 2008 - Pictures
My sister Lynne and I are so pleased with you sharing the pictures with us. She was so thrilled with the pictures - particularly the one with our Dad - we have very few pictures of him growing up or in his early 20s. She also pointed out that we have a picture of my Dad and Uncle Bill with Kate Heath - and they look quite a bit like George and Will Jr.
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I will be downloading the pictures and printing them onto nice picture paper. I can mail some over to you. My parents have a kodac camera printer that I already started printing these photos onto. They look like they are originals. Its great. Toni told me that she has had some scanner problems but will be scanning many more photos in the next month.
When I first started talking to Toni about pictures in 2007, she said she remembered somewhere in the collection there was a photo of a man in a civil war uniform. I have been patiently waiting for her to find the pic, scan it and send it my way.
I figure the Civil War pic is either William Heath or James Shay. I am thinking it is most likely William Heath though. There are a lot of Heath photos in Toni's collection. It will be cool to get the pic though.
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Would be easier for you to save the pictures to CD or DVD? This way we could share them with our brothers. My sister showed my brother Rick the pictures you sent. He asked where was the picture taken - I was assuming that it was taken at George Heath's farm? Please thank Toni for us. I would like to say again - we are so blessed that you answered my email a year ago - we have learned about the Heaths - but also it appeared that our Dad had a strong relationship with the Heaths. My sister recalled hearing my Dad talk about Uncle Frank.
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Yes I remember my grandmother talking about Uncle Frank. He was a hermit that lived in a shack in Heath Hollow...the original land of Nehemiah & Catherine Heath. He was a beekeeper and the Heath & Seeley cousins would come down the hill when they were kids and Uncle Frank would make them pancakes. He is became the guardian for Jim & Kate Heath after their father passed away.
Do you want me to send a CD now with all the pictures on it or wait a little when I get more photos. Let me know.
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You can wait until you get more. There is no hurry.
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I will be downloading the pictures and printing them onto nice picture paper. I can mail some over to you. My parents have a kodac camera printer that I already started printing these photos onto. They look like they are originals. Its great. Toni told me that she has had some scanner problems but will be scanning many more photos in the next month.
When I first started talking to Toni about pictures in 2007, she said she remembered somewhere in the collection there was a photo of a man in a civil war uniform. I have been patiently waiting for her to find the pic, scan it and send it my way.
I figure the Civil War pic is either William Heath or James Shay. I am thinking it is most likely William Heath though. There are a lot of Heath photos in Toni's collection. It will be cool to get the pic though.
***********************************************
Would be easier for you to save the pictures to CD or DVD? This way we could share them with our brothers. My sister showed my brother Rick the pictures you sent. He asked where was the picture taken - I was assuming that it was taken at George Heath's farm? Please thank Toni for us. I would like to say again - we are so blessed that you answered my email a year ago - we have learned about the Heaths - but also it appeared that our Dad had a strong relationship with the Heaths. My sister recalled hearing my Dad talk about Uncle Frank.
************************************************
Yes I remember my grandmother talking about Uncle Frank. He was a hermit that lived in a shack in Heath Hollow...the original land of Nehemiah & Catherine Heath. He was a beekeeper and the Heath & Seeley cousins would come down the hill when they were kids and Uncle Frank would make them pancakes. He is became the guardian for Jim & Kate Heath after their father passed away.
Do you want me to send a CD now with all the pictures on it or wait a little when I get more photos. Let me know.
************************************************
You can wait until you get more. There is no hurry.
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