My family and Uncle Justin have been inquiring about what relation we might possibly be to Sarah Heath Palin, the Vice Presidential Candidate. So I dug into our Heath Paternal line and Sarah Palin's Paternal line and discovered I am an 8th cousin making you, my mother and uncle Justin 7th cousins once removed to Sarah Palin. Thought you might find that interesting or frightening depending on your political preference. We share Issac Heath III as a common ancestor with her.
................................................Issac Heath III (1683-1749)
Joseph Heath (1723-1802)..............Issac Heath IV (1705-1782).........Brothers
Joseph Heath (1754-1830)..............Levi Heath (1743-1818)................1st cousins
Sidney Heath (1789-1859)..............Amasa Heath (1784-1852).............2nd cousins
William M. Heath (1815-1882).......Nehemiah P. Heath (1813-1888)...3rd cousins
James W. Heath (1847-?)................William A. Heath (1843-1903)......4th cousins
Charles R. Heath (1872-1930)........Katherine Heath Seeley (1893-1977)..5th cousins
Charles F. Heath (1901-1980)........Lyndon Seeley (1918-1983)..................6th cousins
Charles R. Heath (1938 - ).............. Diane Seeley................7th cousins
Sarah Heath Palin (1964- )
Thursday, October 9, 2008
OCTOBER 2, 2008 GEORGE HEATH
Here is an answer to your sister's question about what George Heath did. My great-grandfather George Clarence Heath went to work in a winery in Upstate New York after his father died. He did this to pull in some extra money to help support his younger siblings. This was sometime in the period of 1903-1913. I believe his younger brother William worked at the winery for a short time too before his drowning death at age 19.
George married my great-grandmother Emaline Amidon on July 12, 1913 in Angelica, Allegany Co., NY. They first lived in a house in Ulysses built by Austin White, Emaline's uncle. They then moved to Coudersport for a few years before George purchased a farm with 21 acres of land outside of Ulysses, Pennsylvania. George spent more than 30 years farming.
George & Emaline had 4 children together, however their first child Frances died as an infant. In later years, the couple would help raise my uncles when my grandmother became ill.
In later years, George Heath worked as an employee for the Pennsylvania Dept. of Transportation with my grandfather Barney Lane. George was also a caretaker of Ulysses cemetery and a member of the Ulysses Grange.
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SEPTEMBER 12, 2008 - BILLY HEATH - CUSTER'S LAST STAND
My sister finally found the reference to the Heath that survived Custer's last stand. Several years ago she sent a newspaper article from the Sunbury PA newspaper but I had packed it away - and have yet to find it. She said there is a lot of controversy out now whether or not he did but I thought you might enjoy looking this site:
"found this today ---- www.custerbooks.com/little bighornbattle.htm
book ---- Billy Heath - the man who survived Custer's last stand
the aftermath of the battle and the eventual surrender of Sitting Bull
re: one soldier Pvt. William (Billy) Heath, a farrier for Co. L. did manage
to escape Custer's last stand
author -- Vincent J. Genovese
Also attached is a picture I found in my Mom's papers/pictures when I was looking for pictures of my brother Ted. I believe this may be Albert and his family but I'm not really sure. On the back of the picture there was a handwritten note: "These weren't taken this year. We had them addressed to send to you last year, but the mailbox is "clear" across the street from the house!" I looked for other pictures but didn't see any more but I will go back through them soon to see what I can find.
"found this today ---- www.custerbooks.com/little bighornbattle.htm
book ---- Billy Heath - the man who survived Custer's last stand
the aftermath of the battle and the eventual surrender of Sitting Bull
re: one soldier Pvt. William (Billy) Heath, a farrier for Co. L. did manage
to escape Custer's last stand
author -- Vincent J. Genovese
Also attached is a picture I found in my Mom's papers/pictures when I was looking for pictures of my brother Ted. I believe this may be Albert and his family but I'm not really sure. On the back of the picture there was a handwritten note: "These weren't taken this year. We had them addressed to send to you last year, but the mailbox is "clear" across the street from the house!" I looked for other pictures but didn't see any more but I will go back through them soon to see what I can find.
I found out that Aunt Edie has a lot of pictures on the Wood side of the family.
I think you and I have gotten my family members so excited about their family history -- my youngest brother can remember going to stay with our great-Uncle Lewis and driving around the countryside looking at where our grandfather and Lewis were raised. He just told me that there is an old bill on the wall at the Town Hall in Campbell that was submitted by Ira Seeley for work he done for the town. Of course, I told him he had to go down and ask if he could get a picture of it - preferably a scanned picture.
My brother-in-law just got a library card for the library in PA so now we have access to the PA Gen site. I could never get on as I didn't have a library card. I'm hoping that we might be able to locate some info on Nancy Owens, etc. I'm sure we will eventually find contact with them.
I looked for years for info on my Mom's side and now have found distant cousins in Michigan, Arizona and CA...who would have thought just seeing your ancestry tree on the Heaths would have given me the desire and passion again to find my ancestors. I have so much to thank you for!
BTW - my sister asked what did Uncle George do for a living - I knew he went North to work in the vineyards but was he a farmer?
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That is a picture of Albert with his wife Marie and children Antoniette (Toni), Sheldon & Theron (Chip). Sheldon Heath is a painter and has a website of his paintings. We have an old picture that he painted 40 years ago hanging in my parents' dining room.
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Wow - I just checked out Sheldon's site.
AUGUST 13, 2008 - BALLARD COUNTY CEMETERIES VOL III
I ordered a book from the Ballard County Historical Society titled BALLARD COUNTY KY CEMETERIES Vol. III. This volume has Cane Creek Cemetery which is where the Mayberry Family was buried. I hope it lists several Mayberry family members. Also I sent a letter to the McCracken County Court House for Frederick Mayberry's Will. There was a Will for Frederick Mayberry dated 1833 Mayfield Creek, McCracken Co., KY. I am hoping this will list all of Frederick & Elizabeth's children in the Will.
I thought you might find the picture below interesting. I found this when searching for Cane Creek Cemetery details.
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It's great to hear from you. I think this will be our best bet. I've located another grand-grand-grand child of Nancy Owens and sent out another letter. I hoping that there may be an old family Bible from Nancy Shay Owens that may have the info that we need.
I haven't done much research on the Shay/Mayberry side but have found some new information regarding my mother's side being the Wood and Brown lineages. I have an old silver teapot and butter dish that belonged to my great grandmother. I was always told that my great-great grandparents (Alberts) received the set as a wedding present and brought it from Germany. Well I have confirmed that my great-great grandparents did in fact immigrate in 1850 to US and lived in Chenango County, NY. Now, I'm trying to figure out my great-great grandfather (Brown)'s story.
I thought you might find the picture below interesting. I found this when searching for Cane Creek Cemetery details.
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It's great to hear from you. I think this will be our best bet. I've located another grand-grand-grand child of Nancy Owens and sent out another letter. I hoping that there may be an old family Bible from Nancy Shay Owens that may have the info that we need.
I haven't done much research on the Shay/Mayberry side but have found some new information regarding my mother's side being the Wood and Brown lineages. I have an old silver teapot and butter dish that belonged to my great grandmother. I was always told that my great-great grandparents (Alberts) received the set as a wedding present and brought it from Germany. Well I have confirmed that my great-great grandparents did in fact immigrate in 1850 to US and lived in Chenango County, NY. Now, I'm trying to figure out my great-great grandfather (Brown)'s story.
JULY 21, 2008 - IT WAS GREAT MEETING YOU, YOUR MOTHER AND SEEING UNCLE JUSTIN AGAIN!
I hope Justin, your mother and you enjoyed the Reunion. We tend to be very loud but affectionate!
I'm sure you didn't get much information.
I did have a chance to look through the generation family sheets. Someone has crossed off Katherine's middle name and put down Louise - I've always heard it was Ann - so I'm a little confused. Would you happen to have documentation regarding her actual middle name. Also, Ira's first wife - I was always told that it was Julia Brewer and here again the last name was
crossed off and Colburn put down.
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We did enjoy the reunion. Justin knew many of the people and my mother mostly remembered Bill & Georgie Seeley, John and Margaret Thompson during her childhood. They use to visit George and Emaline and my grandparents Barney and Dorotha. My grandparents and great grandparents had lived next door to each other.
I found Georgie to be very helpful and she remembered a lot. She was telling use a few stories of my great grandparents. I was surprised to see how active she was for her age. She invited Justin and me to visit her house to go through the pictures in the next few months.
I do not know Kate's middle name. I have a picture of her grave marker that has her middle initial. I will send you the pictures. I took many photos of Fox Hill Cemetery of the Heath Family members. We had my grandmother interred this past weekend also.
I never knew Ira Seeley had a first wife until you told me. Did she die young or were they divorced? Was there any children from this marriage?
I will try and follow up with the cemetery and church in Ballard Co., Kentucky that has a lot of Mayberry family members. Hopefully there will be a volunteer that has old records.
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I'm glad that you enjoyed the Reunion. I'm pleased that Aunt Georgie extended an invite to you and Justin to look for pictures.
He was married before and I'm assuming that he was divorced -- but have never found any documentation for such.
I did notice that there is an ancestry.com member that has a database with George and Emaline Heath listed. I believe he is from Olean but I didn't immediately see the connection.
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I'm sure you didn't get much information.
I did have a chance to look through the generation family sheets. Someone has crossed off Katherine's middle name and put down Louise - I've always heard it was Ann - so I'm a little confused. Would you happen to have documentation regarding her actual middle name. Also, Ira's first wife - I was always told that it was Julia Brewer and here again the last name was
crossed off and Colburn put down.
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We did enjoy the reunion. Justin knew many of the people and my mother mostly remembered Bill & Georgie Seeley, John and Margaret Thompson during her childhood. They use to visit George and Emaline and my grandparents Barney and Dorotha. My grandparents and great grandparents had lived next door to each other.
I found Georgie to be very helpful and she remembered a lot. She was telling use a few stories of my great grandparents. I was surprised to see how active she was for her age. She invited Justin and me to visit her house to go through the pictures in the next few months.
I do not know Kate's middle name. I have a picture of her grave marker that has her middle initial. I will send you the pictures. I took many photos of Fox Hill Cemetery of the Heath Family members. We had my grandmother interred this past weekend also.
I never knew Ira Seeley had a first wife until you told me. Did she die young or were they divorced? Was there any children from this marriage?
I will try and follow up with the cemetery and church in Ballard Co., Kentucky that has a lot of Mayberry family members. Hopefully there will be a volunteer that has old records.
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I'm glad that you enjoyed the Reunion. I'm pleased that Aunt Georgie extended an invite to you and Justin to look for pictures.
He was married before and I'm assuming that he was divorced -- but have never found any documentation for such.
I did notice that there is an ancestry.com member that has a database with George and Emaline Heath listed. I believe he is from Olean but I didn't immediately see the connection.
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JULY 15, 2008 -- PICTURES OF HEATH'S ANNIVERSARY PARTY
I was wondering if Georgie ever had any luck in locating the pictures of George & Emaline Heath's 50th Wedding Anniversary. The location was my grandparents back yard in July 1963 and Bill Seeley was the one taking the pictures. I'm not sure if she still had the pictures after all these years.
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Let me check with her grand-daughter.
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Let me check with her grand-daughter.
JULY 14, 2008 - REUNION
Attached please find the directions as well as the notice for the Seeley Family Reunion. As far as I know, Aunt Georgie will be attending as well as Aunt Edie. It is unclear whether or not Aunt Margaret will attend; however, her daughter said she was hoping to attend. Aunt Georgie asked if Justin was attending with you.
Can't wait to meet you, your mother and Uncle Justin.
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Uncle Justin will be attending with my mother and me. When he was growing up, he got to know the Seeley family well so he is excited to make it to another one. I believe he was at a Seeley family reunion in the early 90's.
Can't wait to meet you, your mother and Uncle Justin.
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Uncle Justin will be attending with my mother and me. When he was growing up, he got to know the Seeley family well so he is excited to make it to another one. I believe he was at a Seeley family reunion in the early 90's.
JULY 7, 2008 -- REUNION
My mother and I will be in the Potter Co./Steuben Co. area on the weekend of July 19th visiting my Uncle Justin and having my grandmother interred in Fox Hill Cemetery. If the invitation still stands, we would like to stop by the Seeley Reunion in Painted Post.
I was wondering if Georgie and Margaret are planning to attend the reunion? I hope all is well with your sister and the rest of the family.
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Yes, the invitation still stands and we would be most pleased to have you, your mother and your Uncle Justin. I will send you the directions when I get home today. As far as I know, both Aunt Georgie and Aunt Margaret plan on attending the Reunion. Again, I will reconfirm with my nieces tonight.
I've also attached the database file that I had started on the translation of the files. There are some typos. I haven't had a chance to work on the files lately - I have some Word documents as well.
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I was wondering if Georgie and Margaret are planning to attend the reunion? I hope all is well with your sister and the rest of the family.
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Yes, the invitation still stands and we would be most pleased to have you, your mother and your Uncle Justin. I will send you the directions when I get home today. As far as I know, both Aunt Georgie and Aunt Margaret plan on attending the Reunion. Again, I will reconfirm with my nieces tonight.
I've also attached the database file that I had started on the translation of the files. There are some typos. I haven't had a chance to work on the files lately - I have some Word documents as well.
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JUNE 18, 2008 -- JANE WITHROW BROWN SHAY RUTLEGE PEAL
I do remember that comment - I wasn't sure what the doctor was referring to -- I thought it could have referred to the Indian connection. Jane Peal stated in an affidavit that the baby lived for 5 hours.
Last night I discussed with my sister your email regarding Peal's death certificate -- it indicated that she was Widow twice - if Brown was dead - she would have been a widow three times. Also, it was implied that Rutledge had to marry her because of the scandal of his affair with her. One affidavit made reference to Rutledge giving Peal's watch to an individual to give to her when he left town. I really thought that was odd. And, the doctor...he couldn't write his name....
I'm really hoping that the Owens descendants have something -- I'm hoping that Jane Peal and Nancy were in contact with one another.....
I'll let you know the documents that I have typed and will send them to you. I have left blanks where I couldn't decipher the word.
There are in WORD format -- I've actually started in an EXCEL spreadsheet and put the various info in different fields and then the entire text in a separate field - I was going to scan the original as a jpeg and put that in a field...but then switched to just typing the documents as WORD files. I can always go back and put them in the database. My original intent was to be able to sort them in chronological order and then sort by key words.
Also, at noon I walked with someone from the School of Education - she suggested that the TN State Library may have documents on microfilm - she said she has found info there regarding some KY descendants. She was able to borrow copies through our University Inter-Loan program. I'll check into that later.
We definitely need to write a book about our journey.
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I do not think that Nancy had any children before she married Thomas. Nancy was still living with Rebecca in the 1880 census and the only baby was Rebecca's daughter with Stephen Peal. Within months of the census, Nancy was married and probably headed toward PA.
The Jennie that is a daughter of Nancy & Thomas was born about 1890 and unmarried with no children in the 1910 census living with her parents. No real connection to Jennie Hinkle except they may be distant half cousins.
Jennie Hinkle was born in Aug 1879 in Missouri, both her parents were born in Kentucky. Her daughter Gartha was born in Sep 1899 and Jennie was widowed by 1900. I think Jennie is a daughter of a brother or sister of Rebecca's. She could also possibly be a niece by marriage from Stephen Peal's side. There are a lot of Peals that seem to show up in Scott Co., Missouri area in the late 1800's.
I am still puzzled by the 7 versus 8 children. Census takers have been known to get facts wrong about dates, names and ages. Since we only have the 1910 census stating her with 8 children...I will go with the assumption that it is wrong.
Census Info-Children Obit Info-Children
Irving Mrs. Frank Lacy
Jennie Mrs. Charles Van-Dyke
Harry Mrs. W.T. Lane
Orville Mrs. Lawrence Hullitan
Ruth Orville Owens
Earl Owens
Harry Owens
I wonder if Irving and Earl are the same person. Unless there is a darker family secret and Irving was disowned or something...perhaps maybe he was the blacksheep. Some families have them. That would prove that there were indeed 8 children after all.
Also the grandson named William Lorow who was age 9 in 1930. He would have been born about 1921. The name Lorow does not match any of the daughter's married names and also why was he living with his grandparents and not his parents. I wonder if one of Nancy's daughters was married more than once.
I do hope to hear from one of Nancy's descendants one day. It could be useful in what knowledge they may have.
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Last night I discussed with my sister your email regarding Peal's death certificate -- it indicated that she was Widow twice - if Brown was dead - she would have been a widow three times. Also, it was implied that Rutledge had to marry her because of the scandal of his affair with her. One affidavit made reference to Rutledge giving Peal's watch to an individual to give to her when he left town. I really thought that was odd. And, the doctor...he couldn't write his name....
I'm really hoping that the Owens descendants have something -- I'm hoping that Jane Peal and Nancy were in contact with one another.....
I'll let you know the documents that I have typed and will send them to you. I have left blanks where I couldn't decipher the word.
There are in WORD format -- I've actually started in an EXCEL spreadsheet and put the various info in different fields and then the entire text in a separate field - I was going to scan the original as a jpeg and put that in a field...but then switched to just typing the documents as WORD files. I can always go back and put them in the database. My original intent was to be able to sort them in chronological order and then sort by key words.
Also, at noon I walked with someone from the School of Education - she suggested that the TN State Library may have documents on microfilm - she said she has found info there regarding some KY descendants. She was able to borrow copies through our University Inter-Loan program. I'll check into that later.
We definitely need to write a book about our journey.
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I do not think that Nancy had any children before she married Thomas. Nancy was still living with Rebecca in the 1880 census and the only baby was Rebecca's daughter with Stephen Peal. Within months of the census, Nancy was married and probably headed toward PA.
The Jennie that is a daughter of Nancy & Thomas was born about 1890 and unmarried with no children in the 1910 census living with her parents. No real connection to Jennie Hinkle except they may be distant half cousins.
Jennie Hinkle was born in Aug 1879 in Missouri, both her parents were born in Kentucky. Her daughter Gartha was born in Sep 1899 and Jennie was widowed by 1900. I think Jennie is a daughter of a brother or sister of Rebecca's. She could also possibly be a niece by marriage from Stephen Peal's side. There are a lot of Peals that seem to show up in Scott Co., Missouri area in the late 1800's.
I am still puzzled by the 7 versus 8 children. Census takers have been known to get facts wrong about dates, names and ages. Since we only have the 1910 census stating her with 8 children...I will go with the assumption that it is wrong.
Census Info-Children Obit Info-Children
Irving Mrs. Frank Lacy
Jennie Mrs. Charles Van-Dyke
Harry Mrs. W.T. Lane
Orville Mrs. Lawrence Hullitan
Ruth Orville Owens
Earl Owens
Harry Owens
I wonder if Irving and Earl are the same person. Unless there is a darker family secret and Irving was disowned or something...perhaps maybe he was the blacksheep. Some families have them. That would prove that there were indeed 8 children after all.
Also the grandson named William Lorow who was age 9 in 1930. He would have been born about 1921. The name Lorow does not match any of the daughter's married names and also why was he living with his grandparents and not his parents. I wonder if one of Nancy's daughters was married more than once.
I do hope to hear from one of Nancy's descendants one day. It could be useful in what knowledge they may have.
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JUNE 4, 2008 CEMETERY FOR MAYBERRY
Frederick & Elizabeth Mayberry, along with several children & grandchildren are buried in Cane Creek Cemetery located in Wickliffe, Ballard Co., KY. There are no cemetery listings online but I ordered a book BALLARD COUNTY KY CEMETERIES Vol. III from the Ballard Co., KY historical society that contains listings of people buried in Cane Creek Cemetery.
Cane Creek Cemetery is affiliated with the Cane Creek Baptist Church in Wickliffe. The church is still around today. I will try and see if I can contact the church to see if they have old records from the mid 1800's. Perhaps they kept family, birth, marriage & death information from back then. This might be our only option of piecing the Mayberry family together since most records that were kept at the court house prior to 1880 we destroyed in a fire. Either this church and cemetery listings or hopefully we can find living descendants that might have kept a good family history.
Cane Creek Cemetery is affiliated with the Cane Creek Baptist Church in Wickliffe. The church is still around today. I will try and see if I can contact the church to see if they have old records from the mid 1800's. Perhaps they kept family, birth, marriage & death information from back then. This might be our only option of piecing the Mayberry family together since most records that were kept at the court house prior to 1880 we destroyed in a fire. Either this church and cemetery listings or hopefully we can find living descendants that might have kept a good family history.
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Thanks for the update. I've been drafting a letter to send to the Clayton -- I'll send the draft to you tonight for your input. I think I may have found some info on the Earl Owens. I'll send the info that I have on the children. I've attempted to update my ancestry family tree as well.
I've started to transcript/type the various documents contained in the pension file.
I've started to transcript/type the various documents contained in the pension file.
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Oh wow...I am about a quarter of the way through typing the various documents contained in the pension file...10 pages from about 6 to 7 people typed up so far. I do about 1 statement a night. My mother jokes that I am too young to spend my free time typing these pages up...she is afraid she'll never be a grandmother...ha ha.
Since I started typing the pension statements, I started noticing many little things I missed the first time around when reading. The characters involved are very interesting and I am getting a very vivid picture in my mind of everyone involved with James Shay & Rebecca Peal during the 1860's & 1870's.
The doctor described Rebecca as white-livered which at the time meant the following: cowardly; malicious; feeble; pusillanimous; dastardly. It was most certainty a derogatory term for her. He was probably referring to her as malicious and sneaky. Dastardly is also defined as sneaky. I wonder if the doctor suspected that James Shay was sick as a result of Rebecca or that he felt Rebecca was not sincere and upset enough when she was about to be widowed.
Also there was a warning that N.N. Hill, the special examiner noted in one of the files that two of the guys who gave statements was not to be trusted. These two guys were the ones to give statements about Joseph Brown's death. Everyone else, they stated that knew about the drowning was dead by 1894. Several others who had statements did not know anything about the drowning.
I wonder if the drowning story of Joseph Brown was invented by Rebecca and her closest friends and relatives, years after the fact to cover up a possible bigamous marriage to James Shay. She was never divorced from Joseph Brown and she might have married James Shay knowing this fact.
One scenario was that Rebecca, having been separated a year from Joseph Brown but not divorced, suddenly found herself in a postion that she needed to marry James Shay right away. To willingly marry her deceased sister's widower within 6 months of her sister's death could have been quite scandalous. Also the fact that James took Rebecca over state lines to another county to marry her suggests possible shame and embarrashment of the situation. I think a logical reason was an unplanned pregnancy by him. Otherwise James & Rebecca might have waited till he had an appropriate amount of mourning time in front of him and she had Joseph Brown either declared dead or divorced him. We do know that they had 1 child together that was "born-dead".
Since an unplanned pregnancy could have had some difficult implications for her...especially the risk of an out of wedlock child. She might not have been able to take the time to locate Joseph Brown and get divorced. This is why so many people were confused and given vague information about Rebecca's first married to Joseph Brown when she married James Shay. Friends at the time in 1868 didn't seem to know anything about a drowning. They were assuming that there was a divorce since Joseph left Rebecca in 1867.
I am thinking of submitting a copy along with a copy of the original pension records to the Scott County, MO historical society when I'm done. They would find it interesting and this could prove useful to any descendants of Rebecca if they start researching their family history.
Since I started typing the pension statements, I started noticing many little things I missed the first time around when reading. The characters involved are very interesting and I am getting a very vivid picture in my mind of everyone involved with James Shay & Rebecca Peal during the 1860's & 1870's.
The doctor described Rebecca as white-livered which at the time meant the following: cowardly; malicious; feeble; pusillanimous; dastardly. It was most certainty a derogatory term for her. He was probably referring to her as malicious and sneaky. Dastardly is also defined as sneaky. I wonder if the doctor suspected that James Shay was sick as a result of Rebecca or that he felt Rebecca was not sincere and upset enough when she was about to be widowed.
Also there was a warning that N.N. Hill, the special examiner noted in one of the files that two of the guys who gave statements was not to be trusted. These two guys were the ones to give statements about Joseph Brown's death. Everyone else, they stated that knew about the drowning was dead by 1894. Several others who had statements did not know anything about the drowning.
I wonder if the drowning story of Joseph Brown was invented by Rebecca and her closest friends and relatives, years after the fact to cover up a possible bigamous marriage to James Shay. She was never divorced from Joseph Brown and she might have married James Shay knowing this fact.
One scenario was that Rebecca, having been separated a year from Joseph Brown but not divorced, suddenly found herself in a postion that she needed to marry James Shay right away. To willingly marry her deceased sister's widower within 6 months of her sister's death could have been quite scandalous. Also the fact that James took Rebecca over state lines to another county to marry her suggests possible shame and embarrashment of the situation. I think a logical reason was an unplanned pregnancy by him. Otherwise James & Rebecca might have waited till he had an appropriate amount of mourning time in front of him and she had Joseph Brown either declared dead or divorced him. We do know that they had 1 child together that was "born-dead".
Since an unplanned pregnancy could have had some difficult implications for her...especially the risk of an out of wedlock child. She might not have been able to take the time to locate Joseph Brown and get divorced. This is why so many people were confused and given vague information about Rebecca's first married to Joseph Brown when she married James Shay. Friends at the time in 1868 didn't seem to know anything about a drowning. They were assuming that there was a divorce since Joseph left Rebecca in 1867.
I am thinking of submitting a copy along with a copy of the original pension records to the Scott County, MO historical society when I'm done. They would find it interesting and this could prove useful to any descendants of Rebecca if they start researching their family history.
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remember that comment - I wasn't sure what the doctor was referring to -- I thought it could have referred to the Indian connection. Jane Peal stated in an affidavit that the baby lived for 5 hours.
Last night I discussed with my sister your email regarding Peal's death certificate -- it indicated that she was Widow twice - if Brown was dead - she would have been a widow three times. Also, it was implied that Rutledge had to marry her because of the scandal of his affair with her. One affidavit made reference to Rutledge giving Peal's watch to an individual to give to her when he left town. I really thought that was odd. And, the doctor...he couldn't write his name....
I'm really hoping that the Owens descendants have something -- I'm hoping that Jane Peal and Nancy were in contact with one another.....
I'll let you know the documents that I have typed and will send them to you. I have left blanks where I couldn't decipher the word.
There are in WORD format -- I've actually started in an EXCEL spreadsheet and put the various info in different fields and then the entire text in a separate field - I was going to scan the original as a jpeg and put that in a field...but then switched to just typing the documents as WORD files. I can always go back and put them in the database. My original intent was to be able to sort them in chronological order and then sort by key words.
Also, at noon I walked with someone from the School of Education - she suggested that the TN State Library may have documents on microfilm - she said she has found info there regarding some KY descendants. She was able to borrow copies through our University Inter-Loan program. I'll check into that later.
Last night I discussed with my sister your email regarding Peal's death certificate -- it indicated that she was Widow twice - if Brown was dead - she would have been a widow three times. Also, it was implied that Rutledge had to marry her because of the scandal of his affair with her. One affidavit made reference to Rutledge giving Peal's watch to an individual to give to her when he left town. I really thought that was odd. And, the doctor...he couldn't write his name....
I'm really hoping that the Owens descendants have something -- I'm hoping that Jane Peal and Nancy were in contact with one another.....
I'll let you know the documents that I have typed and will send them to you. I have left blanks where I couldn't decipher the word.
There are in WORD format -- I've actually started in an EXCEL spreadsheet and put the various info in different fields and then the entire text in a separate field - I was going to scan the original as a jpeg and put that in a field...but then switched to just typing the documents as WORD files. I can always go back and put them in the database. My original intent was to be able to sort them in chronological order and then sort by key words.
Also, at noon I walked with someone from the School of Education - she suggested that the TN State Library may have documents on microfilm - she said she has found info there regarding some KY descendants. She was able to borrow copies through our University Inter-Loan program. I'll check into that later.
We definitely need to write a book about our journey.
MAY 30, 2008 NANCY SUSAN SHAY OWENS
I have attached the obit for Nancy Susan Shay Owens. The obit lists her as the daughter of James Monroe Shay & Elizabeth Mayberry Shay. It also lists all of her children. Her daughters are listed by their husband's names.
Xxx
Thanks for the obit - There is a son Irving but not listed in the obit - unless it is Earl Irving?
Two of the daughters were Jennie A. and Ruth M. 17 Grandchildren (1944) and 12 great grandchildren ... probably more today...we should be able to come up with someone who has a general knowledge.
It is interesting that they said Elizabeth Shay not Margaret Elizabeth.
Xxx
Thanks for the obit - There is a son Irving but not listed in the obit - unless it is Earl Irving?
Two of the daughters were Jennie A. and Ruth M. 17 Grandchildren (1944) and 12 great grandchildren ... probably more today...we should be able to come up with someone who has a general knowledge.
It is interesting that they said Elizabeth Shay not Margaret Elizabeth.
MAY 28, 2008 OWENS CHILDREN
I've looked at the census records and tried to determine the children for Nancy and Thomas Owens. I believe one of the census records indicated that there were 8 children but I've only come up with 5.
Jennie A. 1890
Irving S 1889/88 - married to Eunice M. and Ana M.
Harry M b 9/25/1892 died Oct 1964 in Valrico, FL - Furniture maker according to draft
Orval Chester (Orville) b 2 Mar 1895/94 depending on which WWI/WWII draft - d 15 Jan 1971
he was a telephone lineman and worked for Bell - lived at 207-208 Vine Street in Coudersport, wife Mildred b 27 May 1896 d 1 Oct 1995. Had a daughter Jane b 1922
Ruth M
there is the grandson William F. Lorow - too.
I then did a people search in Courdersport using the last name Owens - there may be some descendants:
Cathy D Owens age 50-54
William F. Owens age 65
Carolyn Owens age 80
Robert Owens 53
William Owens 86
Amanda Owens 28 - related to Elizabeth and Gary Owens
John R Owens 61
Chanin Owens Cogley 38
Thelma Owens
I keep searching the family trees in Ancestry to see if I can find a family tree for a current relative...
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Any time now I should be getting the obituary for Nancy Shay Owens through the mail. It should list all of her children and maybe even list grandchildren. When I get it I will scan it and email it to you.
I hope that we are able to track down one of Nancy's descendants who may have knowledge of James Shay and Margaret Mayberry and the Native American roots that stems from one of them...most likely Margaret's side.
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I came across the cemetery listing for Nancy Lee Owens Rossman - spouse of Clayton Rossman. She was born 12-21-1931 and died 12-27-1991. She was the daughter of Orville C. and Mildred Bitler Owens and grand-daughter of Nancy Shay and Thomas J. Owens.
I was searching for Mildred's obit - she was born 27 May 1984 and died 1 Oct 1995 in Coudersport - that would put her at 101 - I felt sure there would be an article in the newspaper and/or obit - but to date haven't found anything.
I've found a living relative with a phone number. Do you think I should call or send a note.
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I think a note would be better than a call. That way nobody is put on the spot. If we send a letter explaining who we are and how we are connected and also mention some of the research we have been doing, that will give the family sometime to discuss everything and get back to us. Perhaps they are in contact with a few of their first cousins who may know a few things about the family history.
Jennie A. 1890
Irving S 1889/88 - married to Eunice M. and Ana M.
Harry M b 9/25/1892 died Oct 1964 in Valrico, FL - Furniture maker according to draft
Orval Chester (Orville) b 2 Mar 1895/94 depending on which WWI/WWII draft - d 15 Jan 1971
he was a telephone lineman and worked for Bell - lived at 207-208 Vine Street in Coudersport, wife Mildred b 27 May 1896 d 1 Oct 1995. Had a daughter Jane b 1922
Ruth M
there is the grandson William F. Lorow - too.
I then did a people search in Courdersport using the last name Owens - there may be some descendants:
Cathy D Owens age 50-54
William F. Owens age 65
Carolyn Owens age 80
Robert Owens 53
William Owens 86
Amanda Owens 28 - related to Elizabeth and Gary Owens
John R Owens 61
Chanin Owens Cogley 38
Thelma Owens
I keep searching the family trees in Ancestry to see if I can find a family tree for a current relative...
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Any time now I should be getting the obituary for Nancy Shay Owens through the mail. It should list all of her children and maybe even list grandchildren. When I get it I will scan it and email it to you.
I hope that we are able to track down one of Nancy's descendants who may have knowledge of James Shay and Margaret Mayberry and the Native American roots that stems from one of them...most likely Margaret's side.
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I came across the cemetery listing for Nancy Lee Owens Rossman - spouse of Clayton Rossman. She was born 12-21-1931 and died 12-27-1991. She was the daughter of Orville C. and Mildred Bitler Owens and grand-daughter of Nancy Shay and Thomas J. Owens.
I was searching for Mildred's obit - she was born 27 May 1984 and died 1 Oct 1995 in Coudersport - that would put her at 101 - I felt sure there would be an article in the newspaper and/or obit - but to date haven't found anything.
I've found a living relative with a phone number. Do you think I should call or send a note.
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I think a note would be better than a call. That way nobody is put on the spot. If we send a letter explaining who we are and how we are connected and also mention some of the research we have been doing, that will give the family sometime to discuss everything and get back to us. Perhaps they are in contact with a few of their first cousins who may know a few things about the family history.
MAY 22, 2008 - JOSEPH BROWN AND REBECCA JANE WITHROW
I found the marriage record of Joseph Brown & Rebecca Withrow. They were married by Lewis Dickerson on Sept. 9, 1866 in Scott County, Missouri. I also reread the statement that Joseph Brown's uncle Ezekiel Ashley verified that he had drowned in July 1867 on the Mississippi River.
I looked into the Ashley's of McCracken Co/Ballard Co., KY & Scott Co., MO to see how they are connected. I also found a marriage record for William Ashley b. 1782 to Ann Billington b. 1809 dated 1833 in McCracken Co., MO.
William Ashley was born in NC and he settled in McCracken County, KY where his brother James Ashley resided. James was relocating to Texas so he was selling large parts of his land to William. There are several transactions in the tax rolls between William & James in the early to mid 1830's. James Ashley had several children then relocated with the family to Texas.
William Ashley probably married his first wife in North Carolina since their oldest son Robert Ashley was born there. They they must have lived in Louisiana for a short period of time because Mary Ashley & Edward Ashley are listed as being born there. There were also 2 other daughters born in the 1820's.
Edward Ashley was still living with William Ashley and his second wife in the 1850 census. He was age 20. The 1840 census does not list names but does list the gender and ages of the household. I do not believe Mary Ashley was married to a Mayberry till after 1840. Probably 1841 or 1842. She was married to Frederick Withrow by 1846.
Below are the children born to William Ashley & Ann Billington:
Ezekiel Ashley born ca 1835 in Ballard Co., KY.
James Ashley born ca 1837 in Ballard Co., KY.
John William Ashley born ca 1840 in Ballard Co., KY.
Augustina Ashley born ca 1842 in Ballard Co., KY
Jaratt Moreland Ashley was born ca 1845 in Ballard Co., KY.
I noticed that William Ashley's youngest son and a couple of James' children have Moreland as a middle name. I think this might have been a surname that ran in the family. Possibly William Ashley & James Ashley's mother was a Moreland.
Also Ezekiel Ashley wasn't married until 1871, therefore his nephew Joseph Brown has to be a blood nephew and not a nephew by marriage. Joseph Brown's mother & Rebecca's mother were sisters making the couple 1st cousins. This does make for a fascinating story.
I looked into the Ashley's of McCracken Co/Ballard Co., KY & Scott Co., MO to see how they are connected. I also found a marriage record for William Ashley b. 1782 to Ann Billington b. 1809 dated 1833 in McCracken Co., MO.
William Ashley was born in NC and he settled in McCracken County, KY where his brother James Ashley resided. James was relocating to Texas so he was selling large parts of his land to William. There are several transactions in the tax rolls between William & James in the early to mid 1830's. James Ashley had several children then relocated with the family to Texas.
William Ashley probably married his first wife in North Carolina since their oldest son Robert Ashley was born there. They they must have lived in Louisiana for a short period of time because Mary Ashley & Edward Ashley are listed as being born there. There were also 2 other daughters born in the 1820's.
Edward Ashley was still living with William Ashley and his second wife in the 1850 census. He was age 20. The 1840 census does not list names but does list the gender and ages of the household. I do not believe Mary Ashley was married to a Mayberry till after 1840. Probably 1841 or 1842. She was married to Frederick Withrow by 1846.
Below are the children born to William Ashley & Ann Billington:
Ezekiel Ashley born ca 1835 in Ballard Co., KY.
James Ashley born ca 1837 in Ballard Co., KY.
John William Ashley born ca 1840 in Ballard Co., KY.
Augustina Ashley born ca 1842 in Ballard Co., KY
Jaratt Moreland Ashley was born ca 1845 in Ballard Co., KY.
I noticed that William Ashley's youngest son and a couple of James' children have Moreland as a middle name. I think this might have been a surname that ran in the family. Possibly William Ashley & James Ashley's mother was a Moreland.
Also Ezekiel Ashley wasn't married until 1871, therefore his nephew Joseph Brown has to be a blood nephew and not a nephew by marriage. Joseph Brown's mother & Rebecca's mother were sisters making the couple 1st cousins. This does make for a fascinating story.
MAY 20, 2008 - JAMES M SHAY
I have found a James Shay who was born in New York with a 1835 birthyear. He is the only one with a birthplace in New York with the same name and age. He is listed in the 1850 census with his parents, then he is nowhere to be found after 1850. I believe there is a possibility he might be our ancestor. I have no evidence of him living in Pennsylvania or Ohio though. Not sure if our ancestor actually lived in New York, Pennsylvania & Ohio or if the family was confused by where he lived and worked. I have made a list of every document we have that lists various places of birth of James Shay.
1860 Census - James M. Shay's birthplace listed as New York
1870 Census - Father's birthplace of Mary, Nancy & Jane Shay is Ohio
1880 Census - Father's birthplace of Nancy & Jane Shay is Ohio
1910 Census - Father's birthplace of Nancy Shay Owens is New York
1920 Census - Father's birthplace of Nancy Shay Owens is New York
1930 Census - Father's birthplace of Nancy Shay Owens is New York
Pension Record - William Carpenter states James was from Pennsylvania
I believe New York is the most likely place of birth because James or Margaret would have provided that info to the census taker in the 1860 census.
Rebecca or her mother would have provided Ohio as a place of birth of James in the 1870 & 1880 census. I believe that shortly before James came to Missouri, he may have lived in Ohio for awhile for work and traveled down the Ohio River. Rebecca or Mary Withrow might have been confused about the place of birth.
Also William Carpenter was recalling that James was from Pennsylvania but he was recalling that info in 1895, more than 35 years after he would have heard it. I believe that William might have gotten confused about Pennsylvania because James Shay had two surviving daughters who relocated to Pennsylvania. Also perhaps James lived & worked in Pennsylvania for a little bit also and that is what William remembered. James could have left home in New York around 1853 or 1854 and then spent the next 4 to 5 years traveling and working through Pennsylvania & Ohio before settling in Missouri.
The 1850 census has a James Shay as the son of Hiram & Sarah Shay age 15 living in Newburgh, Orange Co., New York. This might be where our link comes in.
I am hoping to get the 1944 obituary for Nancy Shay Owens. I want to track down descendants of hers. There could be a good chance that she still has descendants living in Potter County today. George Heath & Kate Seeley would have had 1st cousins that were Owens living in Potter County in the late 1800's/early 1900's, so we would only be 3rd or 4th cousins to Nancy's descendants. Perhaps they might have more info/pictures. Nancy was James' oldest surviving child who was the first to marry and have children. She also outlived Jane Shay Heath by nearly 50 years. I wonder if Georgie might remember if Bill or anyone mentioned Owens that were cousins.
1860 Census - James M. Shay's birthplace listed as New York
1870 Census - Father's birthplace of Mary, Nancy & Jane Shay is Ohio
1880 Census - Father's birthplace of Nancy & Jane Shay is Ohio
1910 Census - Father's birthplace of Nancy Shay Owens is New York
1920 Census - Father's birthplace of Nancy Shay Owens is New York
1930 Census - Father's birthplace of Nancy Shay Owens is New York
Pension Record - William Carpenter states James was from Pennsylvania
I believe New York is the most likely place of birth because James or Margaret would have provided that info to the census taker in the 1860 census.
Rebecca or her mother would have provided Ohio as a place of birth of James in the 1870 & 1880 census. I believe that shortly before James came to Missouri, he may have lived in Ohio for awhile for work and traveled down the Ohio River. Rebecca or Mary Withrow might have been confused about the place of birth.
Also William Carpenter was recalling that James was from Pennsylvania but he was recalling that info in 1895, more than 35 years after he would have heard it. I believe that William might have gotten confused about Pennsylvania because James Shay had two surviving daughters who relocated to Pennsylvania. Also perhaps James lived & worked in Pennsylvania for a little bit also and that is what William remembered. James could have left home in New York around 1853 or 1854 and then spent the next 4 to 5 years traveling and working through Pennsylvania & Ohio before settling in Missouri.
The 1850 census has a James Shay as the son of Hiram & Sarah Shay age 15 living in Newburgh, Orange Co., New York. This might be where our link comes in.
I am hoping to get the 1944 obituary for Nancy Shay Owens. I want to track down descendants of hers. There could be a good chance that she still has descendants living in Potter County today. George Heath & Kate Seeley would have had 1st cousins that were Owens living in Potter County in the late 1800's/early 1900's, so we would only be 3rd or 4th cousins to Nancy's descendants. Perhaps they might have more info/pictures. Nancy was James' oldest surviving child who was the first to marry and have children. She also outlived Jane Shay Heath by nearly 50 years. I wonder if Georgie might remember if Bill or anyone mentioned Owens that were cousins.
MAY 19, 2008 FINALLY FOUND JAMES AND MARGARET SHAY IN THE CENSUS RECORDS!
I finally found James M. Shay & Margaret in the 1860 census. They are living in Moreland, Scott Co., Missouri and are listed as James M Chay. That is why I had difficulty finding them before. It lists James as 24 and Margaret as 15. The census is dated June 1860. James is listed as being born in New York. I noticed that Nancy Owens has her father as being listed from New York in the Potter County census records for 1910, 1920 & 1930. I will now keep looking to see where in New York he might have come from.
I have sent a request to Scott County, MO court house for a marriage license for James Shay & Margaret Mayberry dated 1859 or 1860. I am hoping to hear back from them soon. Thats all for now.
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I have sent a request to Scott County, MO court house for a marriage license for James Shay & Margaret Mayberry dated 1859 or 1860. I am hoping to hear back from them soon. Thats all for now.
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MAY16, 2008 PENSION DOCUMENTS
These are the lastest pension documents.
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Wow,
There are a lot of details in this second set of pension records. I am going to try and transcribe the statements from the witnesses. We have witnesses to the marriage of James & Margaret, James & Rebecca, Rebecca & Joseph Brown, Rebecca & Joseph Ruthledge.
I can only imagine what Rebecca must have been like to live with if her 1st husband left her less than 6 months into their marriage and her 3rd husband left her after only a couple weeks of marriage and her step-daughter/niece left her under the age of 16.
Also there are two statements that give interesting facts/insight in James & Rebecca's marriage. One statement says that James & Rebecca had 1 child together born dead. Another statement says that they believe that James took Rebecca to Kentucky to marry her because he was ashamed to be marrying his dead wife's sister and because of the questionable status of her 1st marriage to Joseph Brown.
The question is why did he choose to marry Rebecca if there was shame involved and there might have been a chance that she was still legally wed to Joseph Brown? Also when was their child stillborn? Was Rebecca pregnant when James died or did she already have the stillbirth before his death. James & Rebecca were married less than 10 months before he died. I think there might be a possibility that Rebecca was pregnant in the summer of 1868 and that's why James married her.
I think that when Margaret was dying or died in January 1868, her mother and sister came out to help the family. I think that Rebecca might have stayed behind since her husband "died" the summer before. One thing might have led to another resulting in a pregnancy & marriage.
Their are two statements of Joseph Brown being alive and one of those statements even says that Joseph inquired about his former wife. I think that there could be truth in his surviving. But another statement says that Joseph was on the log with another man and they came to blows resulting in Joseph's drowning...which was not an accident.
This almost seems like an episode of Cold Case...except that this case is 140 years old.
This whole sage involving James/Margaret/Rebecca and her many husbands will add to some interesting conversations at the Seeley Reunion. Someone should write a novel about Rebecca Withrow...there is enough dirt to make it interesting.
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I agree with you. I think in one of her statements - she indicates that the child lived for 5 hours. Also, there's a statement from someone that indicates that she "had to marry" Rutledge as there was a relationship going on between the two and he was a boarder living at her mother's. Apparently he had a drinking problem too....I wonder if it started after his marriage...
I think in the neighbor's testimony that the doctor said she was a "yellow-l...." I can't decipher the next word - although it looks like "liversed" -- I'm wondering if it was referring to Rebecca being of Indian descent. I'll anxiously await your interpretation.
My daughter has a spin on the husbands....she thinks Rebecca killed Brown and fed him to the hogs, James was poisoned, Rutledge "got the hell out of Dodge" and Peal succumbed to fear and/or poisoning...... I told her she watched too much CSI..... her reply was no...."Fried Green Tomatoes." Oh, well, it is definitely interesting.
I'm was kind of shocked to read the examiners description of Jane Peal -- in all the newspaper articles that I read - the town seemed to be in "love with her." She was everyone's Aunt Jane....
I really haven't had a chance to really sit down and read the documents and take notes. I want to make a set of copies so that I can write notes on them.
Happy reading.....
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Wow,
There are a lot of details in this second set of pension records. I am going to try and transcribe the statements from the witnesses. We have witnesses to the marriage of James & Margaret, James & Rebecca, Rebecca & Joseph Brown, Rebecca & Joseph Ruthledge.
I can only imagine what Rebecca must have been like to live with if her 1st husband left her less than 6 months into their marriage and her 3rd husband left her after only a couple weeks of marriage and her step-daughter/niece left her under the age of 16.
Also there are two statements that give interesting facts/insight in James & Rebecca's marriage. One statement says that James & Rebecca had 1 child together born dead. Another statement says that they believe that James took Rebecca to Kentucky to marry her because he was ashamed to be marrying his dead wife's sister and because of the questionable status of her 1st marriage to Joseph Brown.
The question is why did he choose to marry Rebecca if there was shame involved and there might have been a chance that she was still legally wed to Joseph Brown? Also when was their child stillborn? Was Rebecca pregnant when James died or did she already have the stillbirth before his death. James & Rebecca were married less than 10 months before he died. I think there might be a possibility that Rebecca was pregnant in the summer of 1868 and that's why James married her.
I think that when Margaret was dying or died in January 1868, her mother and sister came out to help the family. I think that Rebecca might have stayed behind since her husband "died" the summer before. One thing might have led to another resulting in a pregnancy & marriage.
Their are two statements of Joseph Brown being alive and one of those statements even says that Joseph inquired about his former wife. I think that there could be truth in his surviving. But another statement says that Joseph was on the log with another man and they came to blows resulting in Joseph's drowning...which was not an accident.
This almost seems like an episode of Cold Case...except that this case is 140 years old.
This whole sage involving James/Margaret/Rebecca and her many husbands will add to some interesting conversations at the Seeley Reunion. Someone should write a novel about Rebecca Withrow...there is enough dirt to make it interesting.
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I agree with you. I think in one of her statements - she indicates that the child lived for 5 hours. Also, there's a statement from someone that indicates that she "had to marry" Rutledge as there was a relationship going on between the two and he was a boarder living at her mother's. Apparently he had a drinking problem too....I wonder if it started after his marriage...
I think in the neighbor's testimony that the doctor said she was a "yellow-l...." I can't decipher the next word - although it looks like "liversed" -- I'm wondering if it was referring to Rebecca being of Indian descent. I'll anxiously await your interpretation.
My daughter has a spin on the husbands....she thinks Rebecca killed Brown and fed him to the hogs, James was poisoned, Rutledge "got the hell out of Dodge" and Peal succumbed to fear and/or poisoning...... I told her she watched too much CSI..... her reply was no...."Fried Green Tomatoes." Oh, well, it is definitely interesting.
I'm was kind of shocked to read the examiners description of Jane Peal -- in all the newspaper articles that I read - the town seemed to be in "love with her." She was everyone's Aunt Jane....
I really haven't had a chance to really sit down and read the documents and take notes. I want to make a set of copies so that I can write notes on them.
Happy reading.....
MAY 13, 2008 JAMES M. SHAY
I think I found a new possibility on where our James M. Shay came from. I found in the 1850 census a James Shay living in Raccoon, Beaver Co., PA. He was 16 years old at the time and living on the boarder of Ohio & Penn and along the Ohio River. He is the best candidate yet to be our ancestor considering his age, location and access to the river. I bet his family moved between the two counties of Columbiana Co., OH & Beaver Co., PA. Also if he lived close to Ohio and near the Ohio River...it might make sense that he could be listed as being born in Ohio in his children's census. Also he had sisters named Mary & Nancy. There is a Civil War record for James M. Shay that listed his age as 28 in 1864. That means he could have been born bet. 1835-1836. Since census records can be off with ages by a few years...the 1850 census listing him as 16 could not be too far off.
Below is the family info for that James Shay in the 1850 Census for Raccoon, Beaver, Pennsylvania.
James Shay - age 50 - born in NY
Fanny Shay - age 41 - born in PA
James Shay - age 16 - born in PA
Harvey Shay - age 12 - born in PA
Adeline Shay - age 8 - possibly twin - born in PA
Mary Shay - age 8 - possibly twin - born in PA
Alfred Shay - age 6 - born in PA
Nancy J. Shay - age 4 - born in PA
Thomas Shay - age 2 - born in PA
The Ohio River was a major route during the Westward Expansion because the Ohio River flowed westwardly. The river became the convenient means of westward movement by pioneers traveling from western Pennsylvania.
I have attached a map of the area and it gives a good idea of how James might have come down to Kentucky/Missouri area.
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I don't have my notes with me but I remember the town....it sounds familiar -- I might have noticed it before but latched onto the other James Shay because of the birthdate. This looks very good.
I haven't had a chance to scan the documents in but hope to before the week's end.
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Below is the family info for that James Shay in the 1850 Census for Raccoon, Beaver, Pennsylvania.
James Shay - age 50 - born in NY
Fanny Shay - age 41 - born in PA
James Shay - age 16 - born in PA
Harvey Shay - age 12 - born in PA
Adeline Shay - age 8 - possibly twin - born in PA
Mary Shay - age 8 - possibly twin - born in PA
Alfred Shay - age 6 - born in PA
Nancy J. Shay - age 4 - born in PA
Thomas Shay - age 2 - born in PA
The Ohio River was a major route during the Westward Expansion because the Ohio River flowed westwardly. The river became the convenient means of westward movement by pioneers traveling from western Pennsylvania.
I have attached a map of the area and it gives a good idea of how James might have come down to Kentucky/Missouri area.
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I don't have my notes with me but I remember the town....it sounds familiar -- I might have noticed it before but latched onto the other James Shay because of the birthdate. This looks very good.
I haven't had a chance to scan the documents in but hope to before the week's end.
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MAY 10, 2008 REBECCA AND MARGARET ARE HALF-SISTERS
Are you still planning to go to the Seeley Reunion in July? I will be back in the area around that time.
Since you mentioned that the pension records listed Rebecca & Margaret as half-sisters, I started to look at the 1850, 1870 & 1880 census concerning Mary Ashley Withrow. The 1850 census puts her birth date around 1825, the 1870 census puts her birth date around 1823 and the 1880 census lists her birth as 1830. I believe she was probably born around 1823 and is most likely the mother of Margaret Mayberry...making Margaret & Rebecca maternal half sisters.
The 1850 census has Mary Withrow living in Ballard Co., KY with her husband F W Withrow and her sons James age 3 and Charles age few months old. Margaret is not living with them. I believe that the Margaret that is living with Frederick & Elizabeth Mayberry is our ancestor Margaret Elizabeth Mayberry. I believe Delphia is her sister and Frederick & Elizabeth are their grandparents. That might be why Margaret has the middle name of Elizabeth...in honor of her grandmother.
Mary Ashley must have 1st married a Mayberry, a son of Frederick & Elizabeth. The date of the marriage was probably in the late 1830's/early 1840's. They had at least 2 children together, Delphia b. 1842 & Margaret b. 1844. Mary must have been widowed in the mid 1840's and left the children with their grandparents. She probably married around 1846 to Frederick Withrow and had the following children with him.
James Withrow b. 1847
Charles Withrow b. 1850
Rebecca Withrow b. 1851
Mary Withrow b. 1855
John Withrow b. 1859.
I am not sure if Margaret and possibly Delphia lived away from their mother for a long period of time during their childhood or if it was a short period of time that coincided with the 1850 census.
An interesting note: The 1850 census lists Mary Ashley Withrow as being born in Louisiana. The later 1880 census lists Mary's parents as having been born in Mississippi. I wonder if any Native American branches mixes in with her blood in the south. It still could mix with the Mayberry side and could be Elizabeth Mayberry herself.
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. I do plan on being at the Reunion.
I re-read some of the papers last night and also looked at the census records. I came to the same conclusion that you did -- I do believe that it is our Margaret - with Frederick and Elizabeth. Also, on the one census record it had Frederick, Mary, James W., Rebecca J., Mary F., Nancy G and a Nancy Bowlin (13).
I do believe it may be Elizabeth that is our connection to the Native American branch. The "Allen" children that are with Elizabeth lead to believe this too -- I believe these may be the same "Allen" children that are listed on one of the Government Reports for the Indian Schools. I'm going to take a look again at the Rawles rolls - there are several Mayberrys listed and see what I come up with.
In re-reading the documents - there is only 2 references that Jane Peal's first husband may "not" have died -- someone saw in TX and other heard something about him 2 yrs before her application.
My daughter said it sounds like a movie -- two of husbands literally disappear, one is strong as an ox but becomes very ill and dies and her final husband dies....the Merry Widow.
I'm not sure if I included this quote from the examiner in my last email: regarding the claimant, Jane Peal, .... "not borne a good character" ... since married to Mr. Peal a respectable farmer she is living a better life."
Jane Peal didn't include her marriage to Rutledge in her first pension application -- the examiner went and found the records and copied - there is reference that he also found the record of her divorce from him.
I'm going to send an email to Larry to update him on what the new "developments" -- he said he found some ancestors in OK that were Native American.
Now -- we have to decide on our James Shay -- OH -- NY and PA. I'm still thinking OH - due to the 1860 census - most likely that James provided the info for the census. There were Owens in PA and I think that is the reason Thomas and Nancy came to PA and of course if everything is true with what they are saying about Jane Peal - I'm sure our Jane Shay didn't want to stay with her "Wicked" step-mother.
It will mostly like be Monday when I can scan the documents in.
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If we think that our James Shay is in fact still from Ohio, is he most likely still the son of David & Sarah. James Shay is listed as still living at home in July of 1860 in Crawford Co., OH. That contridicts James coming to MO around 1857 or 1858 and marrying Margaret in 1859. If the pension records are correct with the dates then our ancestor is most likely not the son of David & Sarah.
I cannot find anyone in the 1860 census either. I do not find Margaret Mayberry by herself or with a husband. I had trouble finding Frederick & Mary Withrow also. I will have to take a look again. Sometimes when I run names through the census again, I find them a second or third time when I was unable to find them the first time.
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Since you mentioned that the pension records listed Rebecca & Margaret as half-sisters, I started to look at the 1850, 1870 & 1880 census concerning Mary Ashley Withrow. The 1850 census puts her birth date around 1825, the 1870 census puts her birth date around 1823 and the 1880 census lists her birth as 1830. I believe she was probably born around 1823 and is most likely the mother of Margaret Mayberry...making Margaret & Rebecca maternal half sisters.
The 1850 census has Mary Withrow living in Ballard Co., KY with her husband F W Withrow and her sons James age 3 and Charles age few months old. Margaret is not living with them. I believe that the Margaret that is living with Frederick & Elizabeth Mayberry is our ancestor Margaret Elizabeth Mayberry. I believe Delphia is her sister and Frederick & Elizabeth are their grandparents. That might be why Margaret has the middle name of Elizabeth...in honor of her grandmother.
Mary Ashley must have 1st married a Mayberry, a son of Frederick & Elizabeth. The date of the marriage was probably in the late 1830's/early 1840's. They had at least 2 children together, Delphia b. 1842 & Margaret b. 1844. Mary must have been widowed in the mid 1840's and left the children with their grandparents. She probably married around 1846 to Frederick Withrow and had the following children with him.
James Withrow b. 1847
Charles Withrow b. 1850
Rebecca Withrow b. 1851
Mary Withrow b. 1855
John Withrow b. 1859.
I am not sure if Margaret and possibly Delphia lived away from their mother for a long period of time during their childhood or if it was a short period of time that coincided with the 1850 census.
An interesting note: The 1850 census lists Mary Ashley Withrow as being born in Louisiana. The later 1880 census lists Mary's parents as having been born in Mississippi. I wonder if any Native American branches mixes in with her blood in the south. It still could mix with the Mayberry side and could be Elizabeth Mayberry herself.
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. I do plan on being at the Reunion.
I re-read some of the papers last night and also looked at the census records. I came to the same conclusion that you did -- I do believe that it is our Margaret - with Frederick and Elizabeth. Also, on the one census record it had Frederick, Mary, James W., Rebecca J., Mary F., Nancy G and a Nancy Bowlin (13).
I do believe it may be Elizabeth that is our connection to the Native American branch. The "Allen" children that are with Elizabeth lead to believe this too -- I believe these may be the same "Allen" children that are listed on one of the Government Reports for the Indian Schools. I'm going to take a look again at the Rawles rolls - there are several Mayberrys listed and see what I come up with.
In re-reading the documents - there is only 2 references that Jane Peal's first husband may "not" have died -- someone saw in TX and other heard something about him 2 yrs before her application.
My daughter said it sounds like a movie -- two of husbands literally disappear, one is strong as an ox but becomes very ill and dies and her final husband dies....the Merry Widow.
I'm not sure if I included this quote from the examiner in my last email: regarding the claimant, Jane Peal, .... "not borne a good character" ... since married to Mr. Peal a respectable farmer she is living a better life."
Jane Peal didn't include her marriage to Rutledge in her first pension application -- the examiner went and found the records and copied - there is reference that he also found the record of her divorce from him.
I'm going to send an email to Larry to update him on what the new "developments" -- he said he found some ancestors in OK that were Native American.
Now -- we have to decide on our James Shay -- OH -- NY and PA. I'm still thinking OH - due to the 1860 census - most likely that James provided the info for the census. There were Owens in PA and I think that is the reason Thomas and Nancy came to PA and of course if everything is true with what they are saying about Jane Peal - I'm sure our Jane Shay didn't want to stay with her "Wicked" step-mother.
It will mostly like be Monday when I can scan the documents in.
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If we think that our James Shay is in fact still from Ohio, is he most likely still the son of David & Sarah. James Shay is listed as still living at home in July of 1860 in Crawford Co., OH. That contridicts James coming to MO around 1857 or 1858 and marrying Margaret in 1859. If the pension records are correct with the dates then our ancestor is most likely not the son of David & Sarah.
I cannot find anyone in the 1860 census either. I do not find Margaret Mayberry by herself or with a husband. I had trouble finding Frederick & Mary Withrow also. I will have to take a look again. Sometimes when I run names through the census again, I find them a second or third time when I was unable to find them the first time.
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MAY 9, 2008 - THIS IS VERY INTERESTING!!
That is very interesting. Is Margaret Elizabeth Mayberry a half sister of Rebecca Jane Peal or of her mother Mary Ashley Withrow? Rebecca Jane Withrow was born to Frederick Withrow & Mary Ashley. Census records puts Mary's birth at about 1830 in Kentucky. Mary Ashley's parents are listed as being born in Mississippi.
If Margaret & Jane Rebecca are indeed half sisters...are they through the father or mother. If they were paternal half sisters then they would share the same maiden name. They have different surnames...Mayberry & Withrow. If they were maternal half sisters through Mary...then Mary had to be 14 or younger married a Mayberry and had Margaret. Not uncommon back then in that area since Margaret Mayberry would have been 15 when she married James Shay.
Also do we still want to assume that the Margaret listed with Frederick & Elizabeth Mayberry in the 1850 census is the same Margaret that is our ancestor? We are getting more answers to our puzzle yet it seems like I have even more questions.
Also I noticed in the census records for Nancy Owens, it lists her father being born in Pennsylvania and mother born in Kentucky. I guess perhaps our James M Shay isn't the son of David Shay & Sarah Warden. Now once again I wonder if they are tied into the Shay family of Sweden Township. If James & Margaret were married in 1859, then they must be in a census somewhere. I will have to search all 1860 census for the surrounding areas of Ballard Co., KY & Scott Co., MO. I wonder why the 1870 & 1880 census has him listed as being from Ohio under his children's details. The census records raises more questions for me than providing me with answers.
Also what is the legal name of our ancestor Jane Shay Heath. Was she born Rebecca Jane Shay and chose to go by her middle name when she reached adulthood. She is called Rebecca when she lived in Missouri and then she was called Jane when she lived in Pennsylvania. The same goes with her step-mother. Was she born Rebecca Jane Withrow or Jane Rebecca Withrow. She also uses alternate names throughout her life. This could get very confusing. However it does make sense on the names being so similar that they were probably related. The 1947 death certificate lists her as Rebecca Jane.
I have more digging to do and look forward to reading the rest of the pension details.
If Margaret & Jane Rebecca are indeed half sisters...are they through the father or mother. If they were paternal half sisters then they would share the same maiden name. They have different surnames...Mayberry & Withrow. If they were maternal half sisters through Mary...then Mary had to be 14 or younger married a Mayberry and had Margaret. Not uncommon back then in that area since Margaret Mayberry would have been 15 when she married James Shay.
Also do we still want to assume that the Margaret listed with Frederick & Elizabeth Mayberry in the 1850 census is the same Margaret that is our ancestor? We are getting more answers to our puzzle yet it seems like I have even more questions.
Also I noticed in the census records for Nancy Owens, it lists her father being born in Pennsylvania and mother born in Kentucky. I guess perhaps our James M Shay isn't the son of David Shay & Sarah Warden. Now once again I wonder if they are tied into the Shay family of Sweden Township. If James & Margaret were married in 1859, then they must be in a census somewhere. I will have to search all 1860 census for the surrounding areas of Ballard Co., KY & Scott Co., MO. I wonder why the 1870 & 1880 census has him listed as being from Ohio under his children's details. The census records raises more questions for me than providing me with answers.
Also what is the legal name of our ancestor Jane Shay Heath. Was she born Rebecca Jane Shay and chose to go by her middle name when she reached adulthood. She is called Rebecca when she lived in Missouri and then she was called Jane when she lived in Pennsylvania. The same goes with her step-mother. Was she born Rebecca Jane Withrow or Jane Rebecca Withrow. She also uses alternate names throughout her life. This could get very confusing. However it does make sense on the names being so similar that they were probably related. The 1947 death certificate lists her as Rebecca Jane.
I have more digging to do and look forward to reading the rest of the pension details.
MAY 8, 2008 THE PENSION PAPERS ARRIVED TODAY!
Now to the interesting papers......
"his first wife, Margaret Elizabeth Mayberry, was her half sister. Shay and Mayberry were married in 1859. She was their step-mother and also aunt...."
Shay came here from PA in 1857 or 1958. He was working at a sawmill at the time of his enlistment but was a farmer.
Jane Peal came to MO when she was a child in 1857 from KY and lived there ever since.
Mary was deaf and dumb and died before she was 16. Nancy married Thomas Owens and moved to PA taking Jane Shay with them.
Rutledge was a boarder of her mothers ... Rutledge and Jane Peal were having a relationship and he was forced to marry her. He was a school teacher but had a drinking problem. She was properly divorced from Rutledge - examiner saw the records.
The examiner states that some of the witnesses "can tell a great deal more than they have - but do not wish to have trouble with the claimant. he further describes Jane Peal as "snappy black eyes and a vicious expression on her face - said to be high tempered - neighbors are areful to what they say.
One affidavit refers to Jane Peal as a very "gay" widow that she had always been gay - and advised the affiant to have nothing to do with here for she was "white-liversed." I'm assuming that he is not referring to her sexuality but perhaps to being "Indian" - yellow belly. I could be misreading the text too.
Will scan these documents in and send same to you.
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"his first wife, Margaret Elizabeth Mayberry, was her half sister. Shay and Mayberry were married in 1859. She was their step-mother and also aunt...."
Shay came here from PA in 1857 or 1958. He was working at a sawmill at the time of his enlistment but was a farmer.
Jane Peal came to MO when she was a child in 1857 from KY and lived there ever since.
Mary was deaf and dumb and died before she was 16. Nancy married Thomas Owens and moved to PA taking Jane Shay with them.
Rutledge was a boarder of her mothers ... Rutledge and Jane Peal were having a relationship and he was forced to marry her. He was a school teacher but had a drinking problem. She was properly divorced from Rutledge - examiner saw the records.
The examiner states that some of the witnesses "can tell a great deal more than they have - but do not wish to have trouble with the claimant. he further describes Jane Peal as "snappy black eyes and a vicious expression on her face - said to be high tempered - neighbors are areful to what they say.
One affidavit refers to Jane Peal as a very "gay" widow that she had always been gay - and advised the affiant to have nothing to do with here for she was "white-liversed." I'm assuming that he is not referring to her sexuality but perhaps to being "Indian" - yellow belly. I could be misreading the text too.
Will scan these documents in and send same to you.
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MAY 6, 2008 BALLARD/McCRACKEN COUNTIES
I have been looking at maps of the area of Ballard/McCracken counties. The town counties is located in a area that was the Jackson Purchase. There were 8 counties in the Jackson Purchase between 3 rivers: Mississippi, Ohio & Tennessee Rivers.
1. Marshall Co, KY
2. Calloway Co., KY
3. Graves Co., KY
4. McCracken Co., KY
5. Ballard Co., KY
6. Carlisle Co., KY
7. Hickman Co., KY
8. Fulton Co., KY
There were two Mayberrys that purchased land in that area of Kentucky, West of the Tennessee River. Frederick Mayberry & John S. Mayberry. It does not list a county or town but it would be one of those 8 counties. I think it is reasonable to speculate that Frederick & John were probably related and could have been brothers. Also we need to take into account a marriage record in McCracken County, KY for a David Mayberry dated 1825. That would put him in the general area of Frederick & John. Perhaps all three Mayberrys...Frederick, John & David are brothers.
I have found a few more Mayberrys listed in the 1850 census for Ballard Co., Kentucky & Graves Co., KY. I listed them by households.
Name Home in 1850 (City,County,State) Estimated Birth Year Birth Place
1. F Maberry District 1, Graves, KY abt 1828 Kentucky
2. John Maberry District 2, Graves, KY abt 1828 ?
Frances Maberry
(Wife of John) District 2, Graves, KY abt 1830 Kentucky
3. Frederick Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1758 Kentucky
Catherine Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1814 Kentucky
George Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1846 Kentucky
4. James Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1844 Kentucky
(only Maberry in household) The family he is living with has different surname. Last name is Sams.
5. Frederick Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1788 Virginia
Betsy Maberry
(wife of Frederick)Ballard, KY abt 1789 Kentucky
William Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1832 Kentucky
Delpha Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1842 Kentucky
Margaret Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1845 Kentucky
We also have a George Mayberry that appears in the 1840 census for McCracken Co. and his marriage record states he was married in McCracken Co., KY in 1836. Here are three Mayberry marriages in the local area.
Polly Mayberry married Samuel Lock in Hickman Co., KY on Mar. 9, 1825.
David Mayberry married Elizabeth McConnel in McCracken Co., KY on Apr 4, 1825
George Mayberry married on Sep 24, 1836. Wife's name is not listed.
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The Graves CO KY is interesting - according to the pension file documents - Shay married Rebecca Withrow Brown in GRAVES CO, KY - why would they go there versus getting married in Scott County - She married Brown, Rutledge and Peal all in Scott - so I'm assuming it was Shay that had relatives in Graves County.
I haven't received the second set of documetns from the Archives. My niece is suppose to be sending me documents that my Aunt Edie had - maybe these will have something.
Have you heard from the Historical Society that was sending you the Mayberry info?
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Graves County is just south of McCracken County. Ballard & McCracken County has all three rivers...Mississippi, Ohio & Tennessee boarder it. I believe that when James Shay made his way from Ohio, he stayed for a brief time in the counties of the Jackson Purchase. Mayfield, Graves Co., KY was one of the biggest cities in the Purchase. I believe that James probably married Margaret Mayberry in either Ballard Co., KY or Graves Co., KY. Both counties has had many records destroyed by courthouse fires. Unfortunately their marriage record was probably destroyed along with it.
I do not know why I couldn't find the other Mayberrys before in the census for Ballard Co. What I find interesting is the Frederick Maberry listed as age 92 with a birthdate of 1858 in the 1850 census living in Ballard County. He is living with a Catharine Maberry age 36 (possibly a daughter in-law) and a George Maberry age 4. I wonder if this Frederick Maberry is a father to the Frederick Maberry that Margaret was living with in the 1850 census.
The James Maberry listed as age 6 living in Ballard Co also is interesting to me. He is not listed with anyone else by the name of Maberry. I wonder what his relation was to the family he was living with and how he might be related to the other Maberrys in the county that he isn't living with. Maybe he is a brother or cousin to Margaret.
The Polly Mayberry that married Samuel Lock in Hickman Co., KY on Mar. 9, 1825 could be a sister to Frederick. Hickman County boarders Graves Co on the west and is two counties south of Ballard Co. The Jackson Purchase took place in 1818 and many towns in those 8 counties started to be settled in the early 1820's. Any Mayberrys that are appearing in these counties in the 1820's could very well all be related since these counties and townships were in its infancy at this time.
It could be very possible that Frederick, John, David & Polly are all siblings and the children of Frederick Mayberry b. 1858. Of course without documents or any other evidence there is no real way to link these Mayberrys together except that they all share a common name.
I am still waiting to hear back from the historical society. I have a feeling they might meet only once a week so it might be a few days before I hear back.
Should we consider the possibility that it isn't a Cherokee Indian branch that mixes into the Mayberry blood but perhaps a Chickasaw Indian blood? The area that is known as the Jackson Purchase was purchased from the Chickasaw Indians by Andrew Jackson in 1818. It could be plausible that around this time there were marriage alliances between white settlers and Chickasaw Indians and we could be descended from one of these unions. The time period would be appropriate. However if we have a mixed Indian marriage further back before any of the Mayberrys arrive in the Purchase area pre. 1820 then it is most likely Cherokee blood in us.
I'll keep you posted as soon as I hear back from the historical society.
1. Marshall Co, KY
2. Calloway Co., KY
3. Graves Co., KY
4. McCracken Co., KY
5. Ballard Co., KY
6. Carlisle Co., KY
7. Hickman Co., KY
8. Fulton Co., KY
There were two Mayberrys that purchased land in that area of Kentucky, West of the Tennessee River. Frederick Mayberry & John S. Mayberry. It does not list a county or town but it would be one of those 8 counties. I think it is reasonable to speculate that Frederick & John were probably related and could have been brothers. Also we need to take into account a marriage record in McCracken County, KY for a David Mayberry dated 1825. That would put him in the general area of Frederick & John. Perhaps all three Mayberrys...Frederick, John & David are brothers.
I have found a few more Mayberrys listed in the 1850 census for Ballard Co., Kentucky & Graves Co., KY. I listed them by households.
Name Home in 1850 (City,County,State) Estimated Birth Year Birth Place
1. F Maberry District 1, Graves, KY abt 1828 Kentucky
2. John Maberry District 2, Graves, KY abt 1828 ?
Frances Maberry
(Wife of John) District 2, Graves, KY abt 1830 Kentucky
3. Frederick Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1758 Kentucky
Catherine Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1814 Kentucky
George Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1846 Kentucky
4. James Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1844 Kentucky
(only Maberry in household) The family he is living with has different surname. Last name is Sams.
5. Frederick Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1788 Virginia
Betsy Maberry
(wife of Frederick)Ballard, KY abt 1789 Kentucky
William Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1832 Kentucky
Delpha Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1842 Kentucky
Margaret Maberry Ballard, KY abt 1845 Kentucky
We also have a George Mayberry that appears in the 1840 census for McCracken Co. and his marriage record states he was married in McCracken Co., KY in 1836. Here are three Mayberry marriages in the local area.
Polly Mayberry married Samuel Lock in Hickman Co., KY on Mar. 9, 1825.
David Mayberry married Elizabeth McConnel in McCracken Co., KY on Apr 4, 1825
George Mayberry married on Sep 24, 1836. Wife's name is not listed.
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The Graves CO KY is interesting - according to the pension file documents - Shay married Rebecca Withrow Brown in GRAVES CO, KY - why would they go there versus getting married in Scott County - She married Brown, Rutledge and Peal all in Scott - so I'm assuming it was Shay that had relatives in Graves County.
I haven't received the second set of documetns from the Archives. My niece is suppose to be sending me documents that my Aunt Edie had - maybe these will have something.
Have you heard from the Historical Society that was sending you the Mayberry info?
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Graves County is just south of McCracken County. Ballard & McCracken County has all three rivers...Mississippi, Ohio & Tennessee boarder it. I believe that when James Shay made his way from Ohio, he stayed for a brief time in the counties of the Jackson Purchase. Mayfield, Graves Co., KY was one of the biggest cities in the Purchase. I believe that James probably married Margaret Mayberry in either Ballard Co., KY or Graves Co., KY. Both counties has had many records destroyed by courthouse fires. Unfortunately their marriage record was probably destroyed along with it.
I do not know why I couldn't find the other Mayberrys before in the census for Ballard Co. What I find interesting is the Frederick Maberry listed as age 92 with a birthdate of 1858 in the 1850 census living in Ballard County. He is living with a Catharine Maberry age 36 (possibly a daughter in-law) and a George Maberry age 4. I wonder if this Frederick Maberry is a father to the Frederick Maberry that Margaret was living with in the 1850 census.
The James Maberry listed as age 6 living in Ballard Co also is interesting to me. He is not listed with anyone else by the name of Maberry. I wonder what his relation was to the family he was living with and how he might be related to the other Maberrys in the county that he isn't living with. Maybe he is a brother or cousin to Margaret.
The Polly Mayberry that married Samuel Lock in Hickman Co., KY on Mar. 9, 1825 could be a sister to Frederick. Hickman County boarders Graves Co on the west and is two counties south of Ballard Co. The Jackson Purchase took place in 1818 and many towns in those 8 counties started to be settled in the early 1820's. Any Mayberrys that are appearing in these counties in the 1820's could very well all be related since these counties and townships were in its infancy at this time.
It could be very possible that Frederick, John, David & Polly are all siblings and the children of Frederick Mayberry b. 1858. Of course without documents or any other evidence there is no real way to link these Mayberrys together except that they all share a common name.
I am still waiting to hear back from the historical society. I have a feeling they might meet only once a week so it might be a few days before I hear back.
Should we consider the possibility that it isn't a Cherokee Indian branch that mixes into the Mayberry blood but perhaps a Chickasaw Indian blood? The area that is known as the Jackson Purchase was purchased from the Chickasaw Indians by Andrew Jackson in 1818. It could be plausible that around this time there were marriage alliances between white settlers and Chickasaw Indians and we could be descended from one of these unions. The time period would be appropriate. However if we have a mixed Indian marriage further back before any of the Mayberrys arrive in the Purchase area pre. 1820 then it is most likely Cherokee blood in us.
I'll keep you posted as soon as I hear back from the historical society.
MAY 1, 2008 JOSEPH BROWN?
I read then reread all the papers. Why does the government think that Joseph Brown survived past James' death? I couldn't see any evidence of Joseph Brown still being alive after July 1867. Several aquaintances of his including his uncle and brother in-law? all state that he drowned in July 1867 in the log/raft accident. Although no body was recovered, nobody heard from Joseph Brown after that date. I think that there probably were a couple of Joseph Browns in the area since it is a fairly common name and the government might have been confusing him with someone else.
Rebecca seems to have married James Shay in good faith believing that Joseph Brown had drowned the previous year. I think she is the lawful widow of James and that Joseph Brown did drown in 1867. Two different documents state conflicting details of her 1st marriage. One says she married Joseph Brown in 1865 and he drowned in 1866. Another document says she married him in 1866 and he left her shortly afterwards then drowned in July 1867. I see a couple of statements attesting to the Summer 1867 drowning so I believe that they were more likely married in 1866 when Rebecca was about 15 years old.
I find it interesting that Rebecca Peal's death certificate lists her as widowed twice. Why do they not include her being a widow of Joseph Brown. I wonder if Rebecca questioned Joseph Brown's drowning death herself. She would have technically been widowed 3 times. I wonder what kind of guy Joseph Ruthledge was like if she married him in 1872 and divorced him a year later. Divorce wasn't too common in 1873 and you really needed a good reason for it.
Another thing I found interesting is that 1 document states that Mary Withrow was present at the birth of James' children. I guess the families must have known each other. Perhaps there is a connection that Margaret Mayberry has to the Withrow/Ashley families. Rebecca Peal was also born in Ballard County, KY in 1851. Could be plausible that Margaret's mother was a Ashley or Withrow or some connection?
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That bothered me too that there wasn't any documentation showing he was alive - maybe there is something is the new paperwork coming. I couldn't read the handwritten note on the bottom of the one document - I deciphered to a certain point then I couldn't figure it out.
That's a possibility - that there is an Ashley connection to our Mayberry. Per your conjecture about Shay meeting Margaret - you are right on - the land in Jackson MO was bought 1 Feb 1861 - you add a year and subtract the 3 months and add 2 weeks - its just about Mary's birth date - give a week or so. Interesting enough on the Jackson County MO Gen Site - there is a Shay that has donated documents. I wonder......
Rebecca seems to have married James Shay in good faith believing that Joseph Brown had drowned the previous year. I think she is the lawful widow of James and that Joseph Brown did drown in 1867. Two different documents state conflicting details of her 1st marriage. One says she married Joseph Brown in 1865 and he drowned in 1866. Another document says she married him in 1866 and he left her shortly afterwards then drowned in July 1867. I see a couple of statements attesting to the Summer 1867 drowning so I believe that they were more likely married in 1866 when Rebecca was about 15 years old.
I find it interesting that Rebecca Peal's death certificate lists her as widowed twice. Why do they not include her being a widow of Joseph Brown. I wonder if Rebecca questioned Joseph Brown's drowning death herself. She would have technically been widowed 3 times. I wonder what kind of guy Joseph Ruthledge was like if she married him in 1872 and divorced him a year later. Divorce wasn't too common in 1873 and you really needed a good reason for it.
Another thing I found interesting is that 1 document states that Mary Withrow was present at the birth of James' children. I guess the families must have known each other. Perhaps there is a connection that Margaret Mayberry has to the Withrow/Ashley families. Rebecca Peal was also born in Ballard County, KY in 1851. Could be plausible that Margaret's mother was a Ashley or Withrow or some connection?
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That bothered me too that there wasn't any documentation showing he was alive - maybe there is something is the new paperwork coming. I couldn't read the handwritten note on the bottom of the one document - I deciphered to a certain point then I couldn't figure it out.
That's a possibility - that there is an Ashley connection to our Mayberry. Per your conjecture about Shay meeting Margaret - you are right on - the land in Jackson MO was bought 1 Feb 1861 - you add a year and subtract the 3 months and add 2 weeks - its just about Mary's birth date - give a week or so. Interesting enough on the Jackson County MO Gen Site - there is a Shay that has donated documents. I wonder......
MAY 1, 2008 ENTRY IN A FORUM....INTERESTING!
George Mayberry - Missouri - 1885
Posted: 8 Oct 2007 3:54AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Mayberry, Mansfield
I'm looking for anyone that has any information regarding a George Mayberry, born either 21 May 1885 or some time in 1882 possibly in Reynolds County, Missouri. He was married to Olive Mansfield and had 5 children. His wife Olive died around 1928 so some of the children may be from another mother.
His children were: Clarence, Gordon, Nina, Thelma, & Alvin (not in that order).
I was told that George's father was Cherokee and his mother was Pawnee and that his mother died when he was very young. His mother's name may be Maggie but if she was Pawnee, it's unlikely. I know of no siblings. The Social Security Death Index shows a possible match with b: 21 May 1885 d: Nov 1971 but my father said he was born in 1882 so I can't be sure.
He died, according to my father and the Social Security Death Index, in 1971 in Mountain Grove and is most likely buried there.
Any help is greatly needed and appreciated.
Posted: 8 Oct 2007 3:54AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Mayberry, Mansfield
I'm looking for anyone that has any information regarding a George Mayberry, born either 21 May 1885 or some time in 1882 possibly in Reynolds County, Missouri. He was married to Olive Mansfield and had 5 children. His wife Olive died around 1928 so some of the children may be from another mother.
His children were: Clarence, Gordon, Nina, Thelma, & Alvin (not in that order).
I was told that George's father was Cherokee and his mother was Pawnee and that his mother died when he was very young. His mother's name may be Maggie but if she was Pawnee, it's unlikely. I know of no siblings. The Social Security Death Index shows a possible match with b: 21 May 1885 d: Nov 1971 but my father said he was born in 1882 so I can't be sure.
He died, according to my father and the Social Security Death Index, in 1971 in Mountain Grove and is most likely buried there.
Any help is greatly needed and appreciated.
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That is interesting. Perhaps a 1st or second cousin of Jane Shay Heath? I really find it doubtful that Delphia & Margaret are the natural children of Frederick & Elizabeth. They are more likely grandchildren or nieces of Frederick. If this was the case and they were orphaned and taken in by family members, then perhaps they had more siblings that were placed with other relatives in the area. This George Mayberry born bet. 1882-1885 could have been a son or grandson born to a possible brother or 1st cousin of Margaret Mayberry. A Mayberry Cherokee connection makes this even more of a possibility. I know whatever Native American blood that Jane Shay Heath had in her would not have come from her father's side. It has to lay somewhere in the Mayberry branches.
Although it may take time, we are bound to stumble across someone who has more detailed info on Frederick & Elizabeth Mayberry. Also there are two Delphia Mayberrys. One Delphia is the daughter of William Mayberry & Sarah Tenessee Lee and she married a Brown. She is a possible niece or cousin of Margaret. The other Delphia is the one listed in the 1860 census with Elizabeth Mayberry. I am not sure if this Delphia ever married or where she ended up. If she did get married and have descendants, they could prove useful in Mayberry information. Delphia was the last Mayberry listed with Elizabeth and was probably with her until she died.
MAY 1, 2008 SENT PENSION RECORDS
Here's the remaining documents in the pension file. The other documents have been copied and are awaiting shipment. I think there are some missing documents according to the sheet index in the first shipment.
Happy reading.
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Thank you.
Lots of info for me to read up on during my lunch break.
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Happy reading.
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Thank you.
Lots of info for me to read up on during my lunch break.
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MAY 1, 2008 GEORGE MAYBERRY
I keep looking at the ages and listings for people under Frederick's households. I looked at the 1830, 1840 & 1850 census. I also looked at the 1860 census with Elizabeth Mayberry after Frederick was deceased. It never listed the relationship to anyone in the household even in the 1860 census.
1830 Census - McCracken County, KY - Frederick Mayberry
1830 Census - McCracken County, KY - Frederick Mayberry
- male (born bet. 1790-1800) *Frederick Mayberry
- female (born bet. 1790-1800) *Elizabeth "Betsy"
1. female (born bet. 1810-1815) *possible mother of Allen Children
2. male (born bet. 1815-1820) * possibly George Mayberry
3. male (born bet. 1815-1820)
4. female (born bet. 1820-1825) *other possible mother of Allen Children
5. female (born bet. 1825-1830)
1840 Census - McCracken County, KY - Frederick Mayberry
- male (born bet. 1790-1800) *Frederick Mayberry
- female (born bet. 1790-1800) *Elizabeth "Betsy"
1. male (born. bet. 1810-1820) *possible son in-law & father of Allen Children
2. female (born. bet. 1810-1820) *possible mother of Allen Children
3. female (born. bet. 1810-1820)
4. male (born. bet. 1820-1825)
5. male (born. bet. 1830-1835) *William Mayberry
6. male (born. bet. 1835-1840) *possibly James Smith
7. male (born. bet. 1835-1840) *possible Smith or Allen Child
8. male (born. bet. 1835-1840) *possible Smith or Allen Child
9. male (born. bet. 1835-1840) *possibly William Allen
1840 Census - McCracken County, KY - George Mayberry
- male (born. bet. 1810-1820) *George Mayberry
- female (born. bet. 1810-1820) *wife of George
- male (born. bet. 1835-1840) *son of George
1850 Census - Ballard County, KY - Frederick Mayberry
- Frederick Mayberry - age. 62 born in VA
- Elizabeth Mayberry - age. 61 born in KY
William Mayberry - age. 18 born in KY
*Delphia Mayberry - age 8 born in KY (possible grandchild)
*Margaret Mayberry - age 5 born in KY (possible grandchild)
*William Allen - age 10 born in KY (possible grandchild)
*John Allen - age 5 born in KY (possible grandchild)
*Matilda Allen - age 4 born in KY (possible grandchild)
*Martha Allen - age 2 born in KY (possible grandchild)
James Smith - age 13 born in KY (possible boarder/relative? or grandchild??)
I think George Mayberry is the oldest son of Frederick & Elizabeth. He seems to be living not too far from Frederick and is listed on the same census sheet. There are so many young males born between 1835-1840 listed in Frederick's household. By that time Elizabeth was either near 40 or well over 40 years old. I am wondering if a few of the oldest children born between a 1810-1820 continued to live with Frederick & Elizabeth after they married. These young children may be grandchildren. It could be possible that William Mayberry born in 1831 was the last child of Frederick & Elizabeth and all children born after 1835 could be grandchildren from their oldest children.
If the 1830 census was correct with age, then Elizabeth had a daughter born between 1810-1815 when she would have been between the ages of 15-25 years old. That correlates with a birthdate between 1790-1800. If Margaret wasn't born until 1844, Elizabeth was probably between the age of 44-54 years old. Thats pretty old to have a child in those days and probably unlikely. I am thinking that it might be more plausible that Delphia b. 1842 & Margaret b. 1844 were granddaughters of Frederick & Elizabeth. I do believe given their ages that they were sisters. They are also close to the same ages as the Allen children. The 4 boys listed under the age of 5 in the 1840 census could have been Allen children. Perhaps one of the 4 boys is William Allen who would have been an infant in 1840 and 1 of the other could have been James Smith. The other 2 boys could be an Allen or Smith and could have died by 1850 or sent to live or work elsewhere. These census records leaves me with more questions than answers.
I cannot find George in any census after 1840. Perhaps he is a possible father of Delphia & Margaret who were born after the 1840 census was taken. The girls could have been orphaned by 1850. Let me know what you think.
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I'll print this out and take it home with me tonight and look at it. One of the Mayberry forums had a discussion that George and Frederick were brothers. But, it could be that George is a son as well.
I just forwarded several documents to you - I just scanned them in and sent them to my email. I haven't looked at them to see how well they scanned.
Also, my niece picked up some documents from Aunt Edie and she said she would scan them in as well and send them to me. Perhaps, she has some further documentation for us.
PS It snowed here yesterday!
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Wow it snowed...we have been having great temperatures here. I think the age difference between Frederick & George is 25 years. If Frederick & George are brothers, they would probably be paternal half brothers. I still think it is a possibility that George may be a son.
I found another Mayberry in McCracken County that could be a brother of Frederick. There is a marriage record for a David Mayberry & Elizabeth McConnel dated 4/4/1825 in McCracken Co., Kentucky. David & Elizabeth are not listed in any census for the area though. I think they had already left the county by 1830. Frederick was too young in 1825 to have a grown son of marrying age. Frederick was only in his 30's at that time. Since I cannot find Frederick Mayberry in the 1820 census for McCracken County, its reasonable to assume that Frederick with his wife and small children came to McCracken sometime in the 1820's. Perhaps David was a brother of Frederick who helped the family move and lived with them until marrying himself.
I found George Mayberry's marriage record for 9/24/1836. It does not list who he married just states his name, the date of marriage and the county as McCracken Co., KY. I think George was around 20 years old when he married.
The is also a marriage record for John Mayberry on 9/6/1868 in McCracken County. Not sure where John fits in. He could be a son or grandson of Frederick or he could be a son of George. Perhaps David Mayberry did stick around close by and John could be a son of David Mayberry. Many possibilities!
I am not sure if Frederick Mayberry's family moved between 1840 & 1850 or if they just happened to live in a area of McCracken County that became Ballard County when the county was created in 1842. Unfortnately, the new courthouse, located in Blandville since the creation of Ballard county in 1842, burned on Feb 17, 1880. Most records were destroyed in a courthouse fire. I have a feeling many Mayberry birth, marriage, death and land records were destroyed with it. There might have been a will of Frederick Mayberry's that listed survivors that probably was destroyed as well. Very frustrating to think how much easier our research would be if those records were still intact.
I hope this info is helpful.
APRIL 30, 2008 JOHN WALDO SHAY
I am not sure if I sent this to you before, I believe I have. I believe that this is indeed the brother of James Shay and son of David & Sarah. I think I should try and get into contact with the descendants of John Shay or Isabelle Shay Bishop. They might have info on the family and James Shay.
Transcribed from E.F. Hollibaugh's Biographical history of Cloud County, Kansas biographies of representative citizens. Illustrated with portraits of prominent people, cuts of homes, stock, etc. [n.p., 1903] 919p. illus., ports. 28 cm. Historical Index Biographical Index New Name Index Return to Miltonvale Biography Listing
J. W. SHAY
Transcribed from E.F. Hollibaugh's Biographical history of Cloud County, Kansas biographies of representative citizens. Illustrated with portraits of prominent people, cuts of homes, stock, etc. [n.p., 1903] 919p. illus., ports. 28 cm. Historical Index Biographical Index New Name Index Return to Miltonvale Biography Listing
J. W. SHAY
Among the men in the vicinity of Miltonvale who have accumulated a comfortable competency in a comparatively short time is J.W. Shay, of the firm of Shay & McArthur, attorneys, collectors and real estate dealers. Mr. Shay came to Kansas in 1868 and settled in Lewisburg, Miami county, where he engaged in the milling business until 1874. At the expiration of that time he came to Cloud county and homesteaded land six miles west of the east corner of the southern line of the county. He sold this land In 1882 and enaged in the milling business with the firm of Shay, Catlin & Angelo, who were succeeded in 1884 by Shay & Angelo, and continued until 1886, when the mill was burned to the ground. They ran until six o'clock and about midnight the mill was a total wreck, only partially covered by insurance. The loss to the company was twelve thousand dollars. The mill was a good property, with a capacity of fifty barrels of flour per day and a grain elevator in connection. This loss crippled Mr. Shay financially and he was over two thousand dollars in debt, paying two per cent. interest on the greater part of it. In 1886 he established himself in the real estate business and since that time, by diligent application, he has acquired four hundred and eighty acres of land, which he has improved, built a handsome residence, good outbuildings, and the farm is well supplied with implements and machinery. He also has a fine herd of about one hundred graded shorthorn cattle.
Mr. Shay is a native of Crawford county, Ohio, born in 1846. His father was Daniel Shay, a native of Virginia, and when a young man came to Ohio and gained a livelihood by farming. The Shays, as the name implies, are of Irish origin. His mother was Sarah Warden. Her people were from Virginia. Mr. Shay is one of eight children, six boys and two girls. He and a sister, Isabelle Bishop, of Jefferson county, Nebraska, are the only surviving members. Mr. Shay served about four months near the close of the war. His four brothers were in the army. William was killed at Franklin, Tennessee. The other three died from one to five years later from diseases contracted during the service.
Mr. Shay was married in 1877 to Francessa Neill. They are the parents of five children: John, the eldest son, and Jesse are graduates of the Miltonvale school, and these two boys operate the farm. Fannie is a graduate of the Miltonvale school. George and James are both students of the high school.
Mr. Shay has always supported the principles of the Republican party. He has filled the office of police judge and justice of the peace. He has been a member of the Independent Order of Odd Fellows since 1882. Mr. Shay is an auctioneer and can get as much money out of a sale as any man in the The family are among the leading people, socially, of their community.
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You did send this to me, but I guess I was having a senior moment when I read it initially -- I kept thinking this couldn't be our James Shay as the dates didn't match up.
When just re-read the paragraphs I realized that this was JW and not JM -- it was most likely James' brother John. (a little slow in my old age...)
There is a website that contains some info on John W Shay but the children's names are listed as private ... I think it might actually be Nikels descendants. Nikels I think may be a name on the Cherokee Indian rolls as well.
When just re-read the paragraphs I realized that this was JW and not JM -- it was most likely James' brother John. (a little slow in my old age...)
There is a website that contains some info on John W Shay but the children's names are listed as private ... I think it might actually be Nikels descendants. Nikels I think may be a name on the Cherokee Indian rolls as well.
Thursday, September 25, 2008
April 30, 2008 Children of David Shay and Sarah Worden
I am just resending info on all of the children & grandchildren of David Shay & Sarah Warden. Jane Shay would have had at least 12 cousins who could have had descendants. Also Jane's sister Nancy might still have descendants floating around the Potter County, PA area. I am hoping someone somewhere might have info to help us with. Unfortnately it will only be Nancy's descendants who would have any info on the Mayberry side and that is probably a long shot. I am going to have the Potter County Historical Society send me an obituary for Nancy Shay Owens from 1944. I am hoping it can provide some details.
Children of David Shay & Sarah Warden
1. Benjamin W. Shay (b. 1833 OH d. 1876 Wyandot Co., OH) - No Descendants m. Adaline Sawyer on 7/25/1861 in Crawford Co. OH (1). Unknown Infant (deceased) (2). Gracie Shay (b. abt 1863 in Crawford Co. OH) Never Married - No Issue
2. Isabella C. Shay (b. 7/15/1836 OH d. 7/7/1916 Jefferson Co., NB) - Descendants settled in Nebraska m. Henry Bishop on 2/6/1862 in Crawford Co. (1). Chauncey Allen Bishop (b. 10/17/1862 in Crawford Co., OH) (2.) Sarah Irena Bishop (b. 2/9/1864 in Crawford Co., OH) (3.) Minnie Josephine Bishop (b. 7/26/1867 in Crawford Co., OH) (4.) Jasper Charles Bishop (b. 3/8/1871 in Crawford Co., OH) (5.) Austin Joseph Bishop (b. 3/3/1873 in Crawford County, OH) (6.) Harper Henry Bishop (b. 1/30/1876 in Crawford Co., OH) (7.) Perlia Iona Bishop (b. 8/10/1879 in Cloud Co., Kansas)
3. James M. Shay (b. 1838 OH / d. 4/21/1869 Scott Co., MO) - Descendants settled in Pennsylvania m1. Margaret Mayberry in 1860/1861 in KY or MO (1.) Mary Shay (b. 11/23/1861 in Scott Co., MO / d. 10/10/1874) (2.) Nancy Shay (b. 11/3/1865 in Scott Co., MO / d.12/16/1944) (3.) Jane Rebecca Shay (b. 11/26/1866 in Scott Co., MO / d. 1898) m2. Rebecca Withrow Brown on 7/30/1868 in Mayfield, KY (realize this is not our James Shay)
4. Mary S. Shay (b. abt. 1840 OH / d. 9/1/1865) Never Married - No Issue
5. David J. Shay (b. abt. 1842 OH / d. 6/5/1867 Crawford Co., OH) No Descendants m. Lillie A. Walter on 3/1/1866 in Crawford Co., OH --- No Issue
6. William Shay (b. abt. 1844 OH / d. 11/30/1864 Franklin, TN - Killed in Battle) Never Married - No Issue
7. John W. Shay -- (b. 5/8/1846 OH / d. 9/16/1918 in Cloud Co., KS) - Descendants settled in Kansas m. Francessa Neill on 12/2/1877 in Cloud Co., KS (1.) John Benjamin Shay (b. 10/12/1878 in Cloud Co., KS) (2.) Jesse Edgar Shay (b. 3/12/1880 in Cloud Co., KS) (3.) Fannie Shay (b. 10/27/1881 in Cloud Co., KS) (4.) George William Shay (b. 5/3/1886 in Cloud Co., KS) (5.) James David Shay (b. 1/27/1888 in Cloud Co., KS) 8. Stephen Shay (b. abt. 1848 OH / d. 1870 in Crawford Co., OH) Never Married - No Issue
Children of David Shay & Sarah Warden
1. Benjamin W. Shay (b. 1833 OH d. 1876 Wyandot Co., OH) - No Descendants m. Adaline Sawyer on 7/25/1861 in Crawford Co. OH (1). Unknown Infant (deceased) (2). Gracie Shay (b. abt 1863 in Crawford Co. OH) Never Married - No Issue
2. Isabella C. Shay (b. 7/15/1836 OH d. 7/7/1916 Jefferson Co., NB) - Descendants settled in Nebraska m. Henry Bishop on 2/6/1862 in Crawford Co. (1). Chauncey Allen Bishop (b. 10/17/1862 in Crawford Co., OH) (2.) Sarah Irena Bishop (b. 2/9/1864 in Crawford Co., OH) (3.) Minnie Josephine Bishop (b. 7/26/1867 in Crawford Co., OH) (4.) Jasper Charles Bishop (b. 3/8/1871 in Crawford Co., OH) (5.) Austin Joseph Bishop (b. 3/3/1873 in Crawford County, OH) (6.) Harper Henry Bishop (b. 1/30/1876 in Crawford Co., OH) (7.) Perlia Iona Bishop (b. 8/10/1879 in Cloud Co., Kansas)
3. James M. Shay (b. 1838 OH / d. 4/21/1869 Scott Co., MO) - Descendants settled in Pennsylvania m1. Margaret Mayberry in 1860/1861 in KY or MO (1.) Mary Shay (b. 11/23/1861 in Scott Co., MO / d. 10/10/1874) (2.) Nancy Shay (b. 11/3/1865 in Scott Co., MO / d.12/16/1944) (3.) Jane Rebecca Shay (b. 11/26/1866 in Scott Co., MO / d. 1898) m2. Rebecca Withrow Brown on 7/30/1868 in Mayfield, KY (realize this is not our James Shay)
4. Mary S. Shay (b. abt. 1840 OH / d. 9/1/1865) Never Married - No Issue
5. David J. Shay (b. abt. 1842 OH / d. 6/5/1867 Crawford Co., OH) No Descendants m. Lillie A. Walter on 3/1/1866 in Crawford Co., OH --- No Issue
6. William Shay (b. abt. 1844 OH / d. 11/30/1864 Franklin, TN - Killed in Battle) Never Married - No Issue
7. John W. Shay -- (b. 5/8/1846 OH / d. 9/16/1918 in Cloud Co., KS) - Descendants settled in Kansas m. Francessa Neill on 12/2/1877 in Cloud Co., KS (1.) John Benjamin Shay (b. 10/12/1878 in Cloud Co., KS) (2.) Jesse Edgar Shay (b. 3/12/1880 in Cloud Co., KS) (3.) Fannie Shay (b. 10/27/1881 in Cloud Co., KS) (4.) George William Shay (b. 5/3/1886 in Cloud Co., KS) (5.) James David Shay (b. 1/27/1888 in Cloud Co., KS) 8. Stephen Shay (b. abt. 1848 OH / d. 1870 in Crawford Co., OH) Never Married - No Issue
April 30, 2008 BROTHER OF JAMES SHAY AND SON OF DAVID & SARAH
I am not sure if I sent this to you before, I believe I have. I believe that this is indeed the brother of James Shay and son of David & Sarah. I think I should try and get into contact with the descendants of John Shay or Isabelle Shay Bishop. They might have info on the family and James Shay.
Transcribed from E.F. Hollibaugh's Biographical history of Cloud County, Kansas biographies of representative citizens. Illustrated with portraits of prominent people, cuts of homes, stock, etc. [n.p., 1903] 919p. illus., ports. 28 cm. Historical Index Biographical Index New Name IndexReturn to Miltonvale Biography Listing
J. W. SHAY. Among the men in the vicinity of Miltonvale who have accumulated a comfortable competency in a comparatively short time is J.W. Shay, of the firm of Shay & McArthur, attorneys, collectors and real estate dealers. Mr. Shay came to Kansas in 1868 and settled in Lewisburg, Miami county, where he engaged in the milling business until 1874. At the expiration of that time he came to Cloud county and homesteaded land six miles west of the east corner of the southern line of the county. He sold this land In 1882 and enaged in the milling business with the firm of Shay, Catlin & Angelo, who were succeeded in 1884 by Shay & Angelo, and continued until 1886, when the mill was burned to the ground. They ran until six o'clock and about midnight the mill was a total wreck, only partially covered by insurance. The loss to the company was twelve thousand dollars. The mill was a good property, with a capacity of fifty barrels of flour per day and a grain elevator in connection. This loss crippled Mr. Shay financially and he was over two thousand dollars in debt, paying two per cent. interest on the greater part of it. In 1886 he established himself in the real estate business and since that time, by diligent application, he has acquired four hundred and eighty acres of land, which he has improved, built a handsome residence, good outbuildings, and the farm is well supplied with implements and machinery. He also has a fine herd of about one hundred graded shorthorn cattle.
Mr. Shay is a native of Crawford county, Ohio, born in 1846. His father was Daniel Shay, a native of Virginia, and when a young man came to Ohio and gained a livelihood by farming. The Shays, as the name implies, are of Irish origin. His mother was Sarah Warden. Her people were from Virginia. Mr. Shay is one of eight children, six boys and two girls. He and a sister, Isabelle Bishop, of Jefferson county, Nebraska, are the only surviving members. Mr. Shay served about four months near the close of the war. His four brothers were in the army. William was killed at Franklin, Tennessee. The other three died from one to five years later from diseases contracted during the service.
Mr. Shay was married in 1877 to Francessa Neill. They are the parents of five children: John, the eldest son, and Jesse are graduates of the Miltonvale school, and these two boys operate the farm. Fannie is a graduate of the Miltonvale school. George and James are both students of the high school. Mr. Shay has always supported the principles of the Republican party. He has filled the office of police judge and justice of the peace. He has been a member of the Independent Order of Odd Fellows since 1882. Mr. Shay is an auctioneer and can get as much money out of a sale as any man in the The family are among the leading people, socially, of their community. Transcribed from E.F. Hollibaugh's Biographical history of Cloud County, Kansas biographies of representative citizens. Illustrated with portraits of prominent people, cuts of homes, stock, etc. [n.p., 1903] 919p. illus., ports. 28 cm. Historical Index Biographical Index New Name IndexReturn to Miltonvale Biography Listing
Scanned from a copy held by the State Library of Kansas.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You did send this to me, but I guess I was having a senior moment when I read it initially -- I kept thinking this couldn't be our James Shay as the dates didn't match up. When just re-read the paragraphs I realized that this was JW and not JM -- it was most likely James' brother John. (a little slow in my old age...) There is a website that contains some info on John W Shay but the children's names are listed as private ... I think it might actually be Nikels descendants. Nikels I think may be a name on the Cherokee Indian rolls as well.
Transcribed from E.F. Hollibaugh's Biographical history of Cloud County, Kansas biographies of representative citizens. Illustrated with portraits of prominent people, cuts of homes, stock, etc. [n.p., 1903] 919p. illus., ports. 28 cm. Historical Index Biographical Index New Name IndexReturn to Miltonvale Biography Listing
J. W. SHAY. Among the men in the vicinity of Miltonvale who have accumulated a comfortable competency in a comparatively short time is J.W. Shay, of the firm of Shay & McArthur, attorneys, collectors and real estate dealers. Mr. Shay came to Kansas in 1868 and settled in Lewisburg, Miami county, where he engaged in the milling business until 1874. At the expiration of that time he came to Cloud county and homesteaded land six miles west of the east corner of the southern line of the county. He sold this land In 1882 and enaged in the milling business with the firm of Shay, Catlin & Angelo, who were succeeded in 1884 by Shay & Angelo, and continued until 1886, when the mill was burned to the ground. They ran until six o'clock and about midnight the mill was a total wreck, only partially covered by insurance. The loss to the company was twelve thousand dollars. The mill was a good property, with a capacity of fifty barrels of flour per day and a grain elevator in connection. This loss crippled Mr. Shay financially and he was over two thousand dollars in debt, paying two per cent. interest on the greater part of it. In 1886 he established himself in the real estate business and since that time, by diligent application, he has acquired four hundred and eighty acres of land, which he has improved, built a handsome residence, good outbuildings, and the farm is well supplied with implements and machinery. He also has a fine herd of about one hundred graded shorthorn cattle.
Mr. Shay is a native of Crawford county, Ohio, born in 1846. His father was Daniel Shay, a native of Virginia, and when a young man came to Ohio and gained a livelihood by farming. The Shays, as the name implies, are of Irish origin. His mother was Sarah Warden. Her people were from Virginia. Mr. Shay is one of eight children, six boys and two girls. He and a sister, Isabelle Bishop, of Jefferson county, Nebraska, are the only surviving members. Mr. Shay served about four months near the close of the war. His four brothers were in the army. William was killed at Franklin, Tennessee. The other three died from one to five years later from diseases contracted during the service.
Mr. Shay was married in 1877 to Francessa Neill. They are the parents of five children: John, the eldest son, and Jesse are graduates of the Miltonvale school, and these two boys operate the farm. Fannie is a graduate of the Miltonvale school. George and James are both students of the high school. Mr. Shay has always supported the principles of the Republican party. He has filled the office of police judge and justice of the peace. He has been a member of the Independent Order of Odd Fellows since 1882. Mr. Shay is an auctioneer and can get as much money out of a sale as any man in the The family are among the leading people, socially, of their community. Transcribed from E.F. Hollibaugh's Biographical history of Cloud County, Kansas biographies of representative citizens. Illustrated with portraits of prominent people, cuts of homes, stock, etc. [n.p., 1903] 919p. illus., ports. 28 cm. Historical Index Biographical Index New Name IndexReturn to Miltonvale Biography Listing
Scanned from a copy held by the State Library of Kansas.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You did send this to me, but I guess I was having a senior moment when I read it initially -- I kept thinking this couldn't be our James Shay as the dates didn't match up. When just re-read the paragraphs I realized that this was JW and not JM -- it was most likely James' brother John. (a little slow in my old age...) There is a website that contains some info on John W Shay but the children's names are listed as private ... I think it might actually be Nikels descendants. Nikels I think may be a name on the Cherokee Indian rolls as well.
Wednesday, April 30, 2008
April 30 - Rebecca Jane Withrow Brown Shay Rutledge Peal......WOW
That is a lot of information. The Shay bible was destroyed? I wonder what happened to it. That probably had a lot of info on the parents and siblings of James & Margaret...that is unfortunate. I am not sure if questions about Rebecca's first marriage were brought up at the time of James' death. James wouldn't of had his parents or siblings around at that time in 1869 to contest her inheritance rights as his widow and his children were too young to know anything.I wonder how well she got on with her step-daughters. Rebecca didn't have any children until she married her 4th husband. Rebecca knew enough info to know that Jane R. married a Heath. Rebecca outlived all three of her step-daughters. Nancy died in 1944.
Was Rebecca a 1st cousin of Joseph Brown? That might explain why they married so young...probably arranged by the family. This woman seems to be pretty fascinating in 1800's standards. Married 4 times, with at least 1 divorce and possible bigamy under her belt. Also married to both a Union soldier and a Confederate soldier. She then ran her own business with the hotel later in life.
I have an idea of when James & Margaret must have married. Mary Shay was born in Nov 1861. James is still living with David & Sarah in the July 1860 census records. He purchased land in Scott County, MO in Feb 1861. I speculate that shortly after July 1860, James made his way south to the Ohio River and followed it down to where it ran into the Mississippi. This is the general vicinity of where McCracken Co, Ballard Co., & Scott Co. meet. He then meet Margaret Mayberry who was 16 at the time. Since she is not listed with Elizabeth Mayberry in the 1860 census, she was probably living with relatives in the area. I think they probably married around Feb 1861 when he bought the land in Scott Co, MO. He probably bought the land as a wedding present or with the idea that he would soon start a family. Nine months after he purchased the land, Mary was born.
I wonder if I was to send for William Heath's pension records if they would give me as much detail. I still do not have any death details for Jane Shay. Perhaps I might get the info I want from it. I know William made his brother Frank the beneficiary. He must have done that after Jane's death. Its great to see the puzzle start to get filled in.
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I took a little time and read through some of the documents:
Rebecca Peal was born 9/20/1851 in Blandville, KY (?)
She married Joseph Brown in 1865 and he supposedly died in 1866 as a result of an accident on a raft in the Mississippi - he was rafting logs down and fell off - statement in one affidavit indicated that "he did not die by fair means"
Supposedly Ezkiel Ashley was Brown's uncle (wasn't he living with Mary Withrow?? -- Rebecca Jane Peal's mother)
Sshe married James Shay in Mayfield, KY in 7/30/1868 -- in Graves County -- Why did they marry in KY and not in MO --
Shay died 4/21/1869
One statement on rejection....death of first husband not shown .. evidence he was alive long after soldier's death.....
According to affidavits - no death certificates for Mary and James - not recorded at time and no marriage certificate for marriage - destroyed by fire. No baptismal records for children. Listed in Mary Withrow's bible because Shay bible destroyed..
****
Question I posed to my daughter - if Jane Peal was not legally married to James Shay - could she have legally inherited James land and other assets?
The lady was persistent -- I can't imagine what else could be in the file.
Looking briefly today to try and locate the death certificate for the Delpha Brown - daughter of Wm and Sarah Mayberry - I located a marriage license for a Joseph R. Brown and a Lucy Raspberry in Scott County.
******
I haven't found any real documentation indicating that Joseph was seen alive after the marriage - so I wonder how they could state that he was alive well after Shay's death.
--------------------------
Questions and more questions.
Was Rebecca a 1st cousin of Joseph Brown? That might explain why they married so young...probably arranged by the family. This woman seems to be pretty fascinating in 1800's standards. Married 4 times, with at least 1 divorce and possible bigamy under her belt. Also married to both a Union soldier and a Confederate soldier. She then ran her own business with the hotel later in life.
I have an idea of when James & Margaret must have married. Mary Shay was born in Nov 1861. James is still living with David & Sarah in the July 1860 census records. He purchased land in Scott County, MO in Feb 1861. I speculate that shortly after July 1860, James made his way south to the Ohio River and followed it down to where it ran into the Mississippi. This is the general vicinity of where McCracken Co, Ballard Co., & Scott Co. meet. He then meet Margaret Mayberry who was 16 at the time. Since she is not listed with Elizabeth Mayberry in the 1860 census, she was probably living with relatives in the area. I think they probably married around Feb 1861 when he bought the land in Scott Co, MO. He probably bought the land as a wedding present or with the idea that he would soon start a family. Nine months after he purchased the land, Mary was born.
I wonder if I was to send for William Heath's pension records if they would give me as much detail. I still do not have any death details for Jane Shay. Perhaps I might get the info I want from it. I know William made his brother Frank the beneficiary. He must have done that after Jane's death. Its great to see the puzzle start to get filled in.
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I took a little time and read through some of the documents:
Rebecca Peal was born 9/20/1851 in Blandville, KY (?)
She married Joseph Brown in 1865 and he supposedly died in 1866 as a result of an accident on a raft in the Mississippi - he was rafting logs down and fell off - statement in one affidavit indicated that "he did not die by fair means"
Supposedly Ezkiel Ashley was Brown's uncle (wasn't he living with Mary Withrow?? -- Rebecca Jane Peal's mother)
Sshe married James Shay in Mayfield, KY in 7/30/1868 -- in Graves County -- Why did they marry in KY and not in MO --
Shay died 4/21/1869
One statement on rejection....death of first husband not shown .. evidence he was alive long after soldier's death.....
According to affidavits - no death certificates for Mary and James - not recorded at time and no marriage certificate for marriage - destroyed by fire. No baptismal records for children. Listed in Mary Withrow's bible because Shay bible destroyed..
****
Question I posed to my daughter - if Jane Peal was not legally married to James Shay - could she have legally inherited James land and other assets?
The lady was persistent -- I can't imagine what else could be in the file.
Looking briefly today to try and locate the death certificate for the Delpha Brown - daughter of Wm and Sarah Mayberry - I located a marriage license for a Joseph R. Brown and a Lucy Raspberry in Scott County.
******
I haven't found any real documentation indicating that Joseph was seen alive after the marriage - so I wonder how they could state that he was alive well after Shay's death.
--------------------------
Questions and more questions.
Tuesday, April 29, 2008
APRIL 28, 2008 - PENSION FILE ARRIVED!
WOW - over 100 pages in James Shay's Pension File. The first 100 pages were received today! Many affidavits and applications but nothing on Margaret Mayberry and James Shay's parents -- a little disappointing.
But, we did confirm James' death as being in 1869 and that his daughter Mary died in October 10, 1874. Mention was made that Nancy had married an Owens and Jane had married a Heath and both resided in Potter County, PA. This confirms what we had speculated -- Nancy had married Thomas Owens and most likely Jane came with them to PA where she then met William Heath and married.
Most likely we will have to pursue the Owens side to find any info on the Margaret and James.
Heard back from LH - his Aunt didn't recall any thing but he has agreed to continue to review his documents and contacts.
Will scan some of the documents from the pension file and post later today.
But, we did confirm James' death as being in 1869 and that his daughter Mary died in October 10, 1874. Mention was made that Nancy had married an Owens and Jane had married a Heath and both resided in Potter County, PA. This confirms what we had speculated -- Nancy had married Thomas Owens and most likely Jane came with them to PA where she then met William Heath and married.
Most likely we will have to pursue the Owens side to find any info on the Margaret and James.
Heard back from LH - his Aunt didn't recall any thing but he has agreed to continue to review his documents and contacts.
Will scan some of the documents from the pension file and post later today.
Thursday, April 24, 2008
April 24, 2008 - Margaret Mayberry
I just replied to this email and I am waiting to hear back and will email you with any info I receive from him. You might find it interesting though. He has a Margaret Mayberry from Kentucky in his family.
Subject: Re: Looking for more information about Margaret Mayberry
I have had trouble getting any e-mail to get through to you in answer to a question you sent about a Margaret Mayberry listed in my database. I have a feeling this is the same person I have listed in my database. She is the daughter of Elias Mayberry. My distant grandmother was named Frances "Fannie" Mayberry. I believe she is a daughter, but there is some conjecture that her parents died at sea and she was raised by relatives. I haven't been able to prove that, and she named one of her sons Elias so there has to be a strong connection.I did find in some research that a group of Mayberrys with the same names has sons in Missouri, so this is likely the one you are looking for.I would like to share any information you have regarding the Mayberrys.
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Did you find the database through Ancestry.com or elsewhere? This is definitely interesting...do you know what County in KY?
Keep me posted.
The pension file status is still "Awaiting shipment" - I went on-line today to see exactly what documents to expect. The pension application itself should reveal where he was from and the actual dates of his marriage. Many times a marriage certificate was included. So, let's hope that's the case here.
I've been sharing our info and some of our emails with family members, would you mind if I edited some of our emails and put them in a blog so some of my family members in TX and CO could read about our "journey." I'm hoping that some of these people may have some info and other pictures that would help us.
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I first got into contact with ST last January about the Mayberrys with an inquiry then I hadn't heard back these past few months until now. I don't think his Margaret fits into our family. His Mayberry family is from Monroe County, Kentucky and his Margaret was born in 1837.
That is a 7 year age difference from the Margaret that lives with Frederick & Elizabeth in Ballard County, Kentucky.
Also Monroe County is located in a different part of Kentucky and the Margaret Mayberry of Ballard County is most likely our ancestor that married James Shay. Ballard County, KY and Scott County, MO are within 40 miles of each other with the Ohio River and Mississippi River as major water routes.
Below is a list of adjacent counties to Ballard Co, KY & Scott Co, MO where we would most likely find Mayberrys that we would be related to.
Soon I will make a list of every person with the last name of Mayberry/Maberry that appears in census for these counties between 1800-1870.
Pulaski County, Illinois (north of Ballard Co, KY) – across the Ohio RiverMcCracken County, Kentucky (east of Ballard Co., MO)Carlisle County, Kentucky (south of Ballard Co., MO)Adjacent counties to Ballard County, MO & Scott County, MO*Mississippi County, Missouri (southwest from Ballard Co, KY & southeast from Scott Co, MO) – Mississippi River separates Mississippi Co from Ballard Co.*Alexander County, Illinois (west of Scott Co, MO & northeast of Ballard Co., MO) – Ohio River separates it from Ballard Co. I think if I compile names and write to these historical societies, I may come up with more information.
April 23, 2008 - Pension File Located - Waiting Shipment
The pension record has been located and copies made. It is awaiting shipment.
We may have it by next week.
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Thats great news. I found a very interesting link about Mayberrys in this country. All we have to do is fill in the puzzle of where we fit. I truely believe that our Margaret Mayberry has to be the daughter or granddaughter of Frederick & Elizabeth Mayberry. Given the ages of Frederick & Elizabeth it could be a possibility that they are grandparents of hers. The 1830 census lists Frederick's age between 30-40, Elizabeth between 30-40. 1840 census lists Frederick's age between 40-50, Elizabeth between 40-50. 1850 census lists Frederick's age 62, Elizabeth as 61. 1860 census lists Elizabeth's age as 60. I think the 1860 census is nearer her true age and that she was born around 1800. Probably between 1795-1800. This would put her in her mid to late 40's at the time of Margaret's birth. Frederick & Elizabeth had at least 2 sons born between 1820-1825 according to the 1830 census. They also had a daughter born between 1815-1820. I think this daughter was the mother of the Allen children who are listed in the 1850 & 1860 census with the Mayberry family. I think they are grandchildren of Frederick & Elizabeth. One of the sons born between 1820-1825 could have married young, had Margaret in 1844 then died before 1850. The 1850 & 1860 census does not list the relationship between everyone in the household. Just another thing to consider. Below is the link of many early Mayberrys. Let me know what you think. http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mabry/
We may have it by next week.
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Thats great news. I found a very interesting link about Mayberrys in this country. All we have to do is fill in the puzzle of where we fit. I truely believe that our Margaret Mayberry has to be the daughter or granddaughter of Frederick & Elizabeth Mayberry. Given the ages of Frederick & Elizabeth it could be a possibility that they are grandparents of hers. The 1830 census lists Frederick's age between 30-40, Elizabeth between 30-40. 1840 census lists Frederick's age between 40-50, Elizabeth between 40-50. 1850 census lists Frederick's age 62, Elizabeth as 61. 1860 census lists Elizabeth's age as 60. I think the 1860 census is nearer her true age and that she was born around 1800. Probably between 1795-1800. This would put her in her mid to late 40's at the time of Margaret's birth. Frederick & Elizabeth had at least 2 sons born between 1820-1825 according to the 1830 census. They also had a daughter born between 1815-1820. I think this daughter was the mother of the Allen children who are listed in the 1850 & 1860 census with the Mayberry family. I think they are grandchildren of Frederick & Elizabeth. One of the sons born between 1820-1825 could have married young, had Margaret in 1844 then died before 1850. The 1850 & 1860 census does not list the relationship between everyone in the household. Just another thing to consider. Below is the link of many early Mayberrys. Let me know what you think. http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mabry/
April 22, 2008 - Pension File Request Classified as "Servicing"
My request for the pension file is classified as "Servicing" which means they are trying to locate the file.
Everyone was very pleased to see the pictures of Wm and Jane, Jane Heath and her husband.
In reviewing the census records - when Jane Shay was living with her mother - did you happen to notice the income/assets the person had -- not much by today's standards but quite a bit compared to the others on the census report.
I wonder if Jane Shay Peal inherited some of this money and that is how she came to own a hotel.
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I am hoping the pension files reveal a lot. They would probably reveal the whereabouts of his daughters since they too could have a claim for the pension being that they were minor children when he died. We know the whereabouts of Nancy & Jane...but not sure about Mary.
Also if James Shay was truely the son of David Shay & Sarah Worden, then there is a chance that he had money growing up. James Shay purchased land around the age of 23, therefore he must have already had some money he came into or was given. Perhaps, James was also a successful farmer in Scott Co., MO which afforded his family a nice homestead.
The 1870 census lists his wife, 3 daughters, wife's mother, wife's sister and wife's brother all living at the homestead in additional to a laborer.
The house had to be large enough 8 persons or more.
I am trying to trace out the Mayberry branch. According to the census, Frederick Mayberry was born in VA in 1788. I cannot find any info on his early life or who his parents were. There is another Frederick Mayberry born around 1781 but he is not of the same line. I will talk to you later.
Everyone was very pleased to see the pictures of Wm and Jane, Jane Heath and her husband.
In reviewing the census records - when Jane Shay was living with her mother - did you happen to notice the income/assets the person had -- not much by today's standards but quite a bit compared to the others on the census report.
I wonder if Jane Shay Peal inherited some of this money and that is how she came to own a hotel.
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I am hoping the pension files reveal a lot. They would probably reveal the whereabouts of his daughters since they too could have a claim for the pension being that they were minor children when he died. We know the whereabouts of Nancy & Jane...but not sure about Mary.
Also if James Shay was truely the son of David Shay & Sarah Worden, then there is a chance that he had money growing up. James Shay purchased land around the age of 23, therefore he must have already had some money he came into or was given. Perhaps, James was also a successful farmer in Scott Co., MO which afforded his family a nice homestead.
The 1870 census lists his wife, 3 daughters, wife's mother, wife's sister and wife's brother all living at the homestead in additional to a laborer.
The house had to be large enough 8 persons or more.
I am trying to trace out the Mayberry branch. According to the census, Frederick Mayberry was born in VA in 1788. I cannot find any info on his early life or who his parents were. There is another Frederick Mayberry born around 1781 but he is not of the same line. I will talk to you later.
April 12, 2008 - Shay's Pension File
I wasn't sure when you were going to Washington but I wanted to let you know that I just ordered a copy of James Shay's complete Pension record. (I received a bonus for typing a dissertation.) It takes approx. 1 1/2 month to process the request.
I haven't had much time to review any more newspaper articles but hopefully will in the coming weeks -- now that I have my son's taxes done.
I plan to go home in mid May for a week. Both my Aunt Georgie and sister would like to go to Potter County. Perhaps, we could meet at that time.
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I was planning to go to Washington in May sometime for the Pension Record but will hold off since you ordered it.
Is the Seeley reunion still going on in July? Let me know because I think my uncle would like to attend it. I would most likely tag along for it also.
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The Seeley Reunion is July 19th at Craig Park in Painted Post, NY - next to the West High School. It usually starts around 11:00 and we eat at Noon or so then there's the business meeting and auction. People start coming around 10:00 or so.
I haven't had much time to review any more newspaper articles but hopefully will in the coming weeks -- now that I have my son's taxes done.
I plan to go home in mid May for a week. Both my Aunt Georgie and sister would like to go to Potter County. Perhaps, we could meet at that time.
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I was planning to go to Washington in May sometime for the Pension Record but will hold off since you ordered it.
Is the Seeley reunion still going on in July? Let me know because I think my uncle would like to attend it. I would most likely tag along for it also.
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The Seeley Reunion is July 19th at Craig Park in Painted Post, NY - next to the West High School. It usually starts around 11:00 and we eat at Noon or so then there's the business meeting and auction. People start coming around 10:00 or so.
April 4, 2008 - Mary L. James
I do not know who Mary James is. I noticed that too. My mother never remembered anything being said about that.
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It looks as if she married sometime after the 1900 census - mostly like around 1907 or so -
It looks as if she married a Frank Larkin and had another child Myrtle.
She appears in at least the 1910 and 1920 census --
Maybe she was William's live-in housekeeper after Jane died.
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That would make sense since Jane probably did all the house cleaning and upkeep. William's mother was nearing 80 years old and running the household next door with her sons Lorenzo & Frank who both never married. I will see if Tonie has anything written in her father's notes about this branch.
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It looks as if she married sometime after the 1900 census - mostly like around 1907 or so -
It looks as if she married a Frank Larkin and had another child Myrtle.
She appears in at least the 1910 and 1920 census --
Maybe she was William's live-in housekeeper after Jane died.
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That would make sense since Jane probably did all the house cleaning and upkeep. William's mother was nearing 80 years old and running the household next door with her sons Lorenzo & Frank who both never married. I will see if Tonie has anything written in her father's notes about this branch.
April 3, 2008 - William Heath Article
I found the articles about William Heath very interesting, however this is not our William A. Heath. Our William A. Heath died Oct 25, 1903 of natural causes in Brookland/Ulysses.
The suicide/murder of this other William Heath took place in Vermont in 1910. William Heath, son of William & Jane and brother of George, Jim & Kate died sometime between 1903-1910.
The story that passed down to us was that he drowned. I have no details of when he drowned or where he drowned. I will see if the state of PA has a death certificate on file for him. I don't think this William Heath is the same but it would be worth looking into. If he died around Sept 1910 then he will be listed in the Vermont-June 1910 Census. I will see if the age, birthplace and parents' birthplace matches to our family.
Does Georgie or anyone from your family know how Jane Shay Heath died in 1898? There is no death certificate or death notice on record at Potter Co or the State of PA. We may only know the answers about this through surviving grandchildren. The death could just as easily have been cancer or tuberculosis. I'll look into this and see what I find.
********************************************************************I was thinking that it could be (with a big Could be) the younger William -- but it most likely isn't...I just found it odd to be listed in the PA newspapers. I have been querying Heath/death/drowning but have yet to get any hits for the younger William.
At first I ignored the articles -- but then I was thinking that it could be a remote possibility-if you look at the Crandalls many are located in the New England area - I then speculated it could be a possibility that Wm might have been in VT due to the connections there with a Crandall or so.
I just find it odd too - that our family has always heard that Thomas's death wasn't suicide but murder - being it is "difficult to shoot yourself in the back" -- Was this a case of mistaken family lore.... -- the newspaper article on Thomas indicated he was shot in the head -- questions and more questions.
I'll run some more queries on Shay in the newspaper database and see what I come up with. I actually broke down and paid for a month's subscription to a national newspaper database.
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After reading a few more articles - this can't be our William Heath.
BTW - do you know who Mary L. James is --- she is listed as a housekeeper on the census with Wm, and his children. It looks as if she had 2 small children as well.
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